The value of the namespace arises from both being simple and logical. It is very hard to see how a 2LD can be justified to support the wishes of the 5 real banks, and ~20 wannabe banks, or broking houses, or insurance houses, who like to think they are bank like. 25 entries is not likely to stress the .co.nz namespace (which is surely the only reason for considering another 2LD.) In the mind of the applicant, why would banks be (at internet level) any more or less special than any other commercial entity. Sure this would lead to .legal.nz, .treaty.nz, and a variety of other groups who for whatever (spurious?) reason somehow think they are "special". I propose to make a submission against .bank. R Ewen McNeiil wrote:-
(b) I don't have a major problem with any of the suggestions I've seen on either nznog or isocnz-members, providing it's intended there be a moderately logical hierachy underneath it.
Given that the vast majority of registrants are in 'co.nz' anyway - the last number I saw was around 95%, I really find it hard to see what value the structure has anyway. -- \_ Roger De Salis rdesalis(a)fx.net.nz
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On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 12:04:10PM +1200, Roger De Salis wrote: [...] Sure this would lead to .legal.nz, .treaty.nz, and a variety of other groups who for whatever (spurious?) reason somehow think they are "special". Why should they not have this? We already have rather largly unused 2LDs for pointless purposed such as .MAORI.NZ, .IWI.NZ and .CRI.NZ, the latter being especially pointless. I propose to make a submission against .bank. I don't agree. I *support* the creation of .BANK.NZ. I will also support the creation of .ISP.NZ and potentially other 2LDs if also of equal or greater merit than existing 2LDs. For NZNOG readers: I ask everyone here to consider the value in .ISP.NZ, I suggest this be discussed openly and then and official request be placed if sufficiently people are in agreement. --cw - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
[cross-posting removed] On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 12:04:10PM +1200, Roger De Salis wrote:
The value of the namespace arises from both being simple and logical.
I don't get that. Why is "nbnz.co.nz" simpler and more logical than "national.bank.nz"? Is "asbbank.co.nz" easier to remember than "asb.bank.nz"?
It is very hard to see how a 2LD can be justified to support the wishes of the 5 real banks, and ~20 wannabe banks, or broking houses, or insurance houses, who like to think they are bank like.
It's harder for me to figure out why anybody needs to be put in the position of having to justify it. The restriction of registrations under the existing second-level labels has no technical basis, given that most names are under co.nz anyway. I'm not seeing the sociological or educational reasons for it, either. I must be missing something, because the only other reason I can think of for the restriction is to perpetuate the need for the organisation that requires the justification. Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 11:02:32PM -0400, Joe Abley wrote: I don't get that. Why is "nbnz.co.nz" simpler and more logical than "national.bank.nz"? Is "asbbank.co.nz" easier to remember than "asb.bank.nz"? A wider issue perhaps, but something that exists with the .com name-space too. How does one find National Car Rentals as I had to recently? Or indeed anything with a generic name? I always use google... it seems to work great. For me it doesn't matter then what the domains are... google allows me to find the right people with so little effort these days. The restriction of registrations under the existing second-level labels has no technical basis, given that most names are under co.nz anyway. This presupposes having more 2LDs under .NZ at present is effortless. I don't know the software involved, but perhaps there are practical issues there such as the name-sever administrators having to reconfigure bind config each time? One assumes this is effortless and reliable, but it may not be the case at all. Since all the existing 2LD .NZ name-servers are also name-servers for .NZ --- maybe there should be only one .NZ 'zone' and the SOA gets to decide and dictate the structure completely? No administration is therefore required by Xtra, TelstraCLEAR, whomever. --cw - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 08:10:30PM -0700, Chris Wedgwood wrote:
On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 11:02:32PM -0400, Joe Abley wrote:
The restriction of registrations under the existing second-level labels has no technical basis, given that most names are under co.nz anyway.
This presupposes having more 2LDs under .NZ at present is effortless.
All I meant was that the namespace doesn't really get noticably flatter, in the worst case, given that the hierarchy under NZ (and outside CO.NZ) is relatively empty. Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/395.html It seemed appropriate... This seems to be two debates: 1. Do we need to open up the 2LD? As in totally open it up. Open slather. 2. Iff we don't want to open it up, do we need the .bank.nz domain? I suggest that the answer to (2) is 'no', and that the question has already been asked and was 'no' then, and if it is asked again in the future it will still be 'no!' There may in the future be a (3) "Should 2ld xxx.nz be created?", but that question gets to be asked if and when the need arises, and should not be confused with the fundamental debate over (1). Names are important. As any trademark lawyer. Some of the natural distinguishers that exist in other areas don't exist in DNS namespace. Is smiths.com a foundry, a crisp manufacturer, a clockmaker? All those can simultaneously trademark "Smiths" for their products since there is no confusion in the natural world. There was no confusion between "Apple"---the record label and "Apple" the computer company, until the computer company started to make their computers able to play music. I actually think .co.nz is useful, on the assumption that anything in that namespace is a trading entity and is willing to fight over naming rights. I'd prefer other rules to hold in other domains. (It could be interesting to watch the disputes process in the mil.nz domain for instance :-) -- Michael Newbery IP Architect TelstraClear Limited - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Michael Newbery wrote:
http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/395.html
It seemed appropriate...
This seems to be two debates: 1. Do we need to open up the 2LD? As in totally open it up. Open slather.
That's the one! And if we go with this path then the NZ Bankers Association can grab bank.nz and do as they please with it in exactly the same way I can create subdomains of 'lionra.net.nz' such as 'bank.lionra.net.nz'. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Michael Newbery wrote:
http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/395.html
It seemed appropriate...
Heh.
This seems to be two debates: 1. Do we need to open up the 2LD? As in totally open it up. Open slather. 2. Iff we don't want to open it up, do we need the .bank.nz domain?
Isn't it more likely that openly commercial new 2lds like bank.nz are simply attempts at bringing in revenue for InternetNZzzz....? If that's the case, the what "we" want or need is neither here nor there. -- Juha - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 16:02, Juha Saarinen wrote: e don't want to open it up, do we need the .bank.nz domain?
Isn't it more likely that openly commercial new 2lds like bank.nz are simply attempts at bringing in revenue for InternetNZzzz....?
If that's the case, the what "we" want or need is neither here nor there.
1. InternetNZ does not put forward a 2ld delegation request without someone proposing it to them. (eg NZMIS put forward .maori.nz, the Bankers association put forward .bank.nz) 2. Whether the council considers a request to be good or bad they have no choice but to follow the policy, hence the second attempt to get .bank.nz. (which IMHO came about because .maori.nz got approved) 3. It's not going to generate any real amount of money for InternetNZ. :D - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Isn't it more likely that openly commercial new 2lds like bank.nz are simply attempts at bringing in revenue for InternetNZzzz....?
InternetNZ did not ask for this application. A process exists that is nearly 5 years old. InternetNZ is following policy that was put in place after public input process led by John Hine. http://www.internetnz.net.nz/dns/2nd-level-domains/2ld97consult-index.html http://www.internetnz.net.nz/dns/2nd-level-domains/dns970521future-dev.html Other than InternetNZ sitting on this application for 3.5 months InternetNZ has done nothing wrong. In late May I presented a paper to council about reviewing the 2LD name space and it was assigned to the .nz oversight committee to look at where it has rotted ever since not even appearing on its agenda. People think that InternetNZ would make more money with .bank.nz being approved.. heck if you were able to register direct in the second level it would add FAR MORE money to the registry (and registrars and lawyers and ...) Lets stop this black helicopter stuff eh? Steven Heath .nz news & views http://radio.weblogs.com/0110729/ - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Juha Saarinen wrote:
Isn't it more likely that openly commercial new 2lds like bank.nz are simply attempts at bringing in revenue for InternetNZzzz....?
Uh ... lessee, there are ... what, 20 or 30 "bank"-sih entities? That's not a lot of income. It's hardly a revenue gathering exercise. The resource-cost of the collective man-hours nznog as a collective[1] entity has spent reading/replying-to this discussion almost certainly exceeds any income that may be generated from it, possibly by orders of magnitude. JSR [1] Resistance is futile. -- John S Russell | Big Geek | Fun will now commence. "The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy." - Drago Museveni C.Y. 8427 - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog
Isn't it more likely that openly commercial new 2lds like bank.nz are simply attempts at bringing in revenue for InternetNZzzz....?
Uh ... lessee, there are ... what, 20 or 30 "bank"-sih entities? That's not a lot of income.
It's hardly a revenue gathering exercise. The resource-cost of the collective man-hours nznog as a collective[1] entity has spent reading/replying-to this discussion almost certainly exceeds any income that may be generated from it, possibly by orders of magnitude.
Especially when one is reading it. What I have got so far are these few salient points: 1) Some of us want .bank.nz 2) Some of us don't. 3) Some of us don't care. 4) Some of us want to eliminate the 2TD 5) Some of us don't. 6) Some of us don't care. 7) Some of us like curry on thursday night. Would you say that's a reasonably accurate representation of the thread? I have heard each of these points argued forwards, backwards upside down and sometimes even inside out. May I suggest that if you don't have anything more to add to the thread that you don't add it... Please, I don't want to have to resort to tactical procmailling. -- Cheers. James Tyson --- Samizdat New Media Solutions
participants (10)
-
Andy Linton -
Chris Wedgwood -
Drew Whittle -
J S Russell -
James Tyson -
Joe Abley -
Juha Saarinen -
Michael Newbery -
Roger De Salis -
Steven Heath