I'm pleased to see this thread generate lots of discussion and I've thought some more about my position on this. I think the community should look at a number of things: 1) I think from postings from Philip Smith, Joe Abley, myself (and others) it's clear there is a mechanism for applying for globally unique ASNs and it is possible to get them assigned where need can be demonstrated. There may be an additional cost associated with this. Clearly such an ASN can be used anywhere on the net including Citylink or the APE. This should be the preferred option for anyone who wants to peer in whatever form with more than one other entity. Private ASNs should be reserved for use between two entities. This may well cover Simon's WIX route reflectors. Perhaps ISPs, telcos, and other organisations like Citylink should create mechanisms (if they don't already have them) to enable their customers to obtain ASN numbers from APNIC where those customers need an ASN. (My cynical mind makes me suspect that there may be some resistance to this as it may be perceived that customers are using this to avoid charging, connect to another provider etc. Please prove me wrong! Public declarations on this list might help.) 2) Additionally there is a mechanisms also identified in previous postings for obtaining IPv4 address space for multihoming. Explore those mechanisms if you *need* address space. 3) It would be good if we could work together to make the WIX model work efficiently. Some larger providers might wish that there were only larger providers peering at the WIX. That clearly isn't the case so it would be good to see them sit down with Simon Blake and work out how to get efficient and redundant peering working. 4) Ditto the APE. 5) If people want address the related but separate problem of using RPSL and the routing registry mechanism to express their public policy (and automatic generation of filter lists etc) then start trying to understand policy in terms of the provisions of RFC2622 and RFC2650. I'm happy to work on this with people when I get back to NZ in November. Others have said the same but I'll let them put their hands up. If you intend to do this please strongly consider using the APNIC service coming shortly. I posted yesterday that the service was hosted in Brisbane and mirrored at RIPE. They are also investigating the deployment of redundant services using anycast on four separate continents. How redundant do you need the service to be? andy - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog