July 2003 - NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Net4U's earlier actions
by Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Hi, Firstly, I'd like to apologise for actions made earlier during the day with respect to a mailout to a certain group of ISP's. I wasnt thinking clearly when I thought to add a few more addresses to the mailout to existing contacts. My bad, wont be repeated. As Richard has suggested, if anyone has any concerns or issues that need addressing, please contact us off-list. Just for those that were concerned, issues with abuse(a)net4u.co.nz have now been resolved. Once again, my apologies for the drama here in NZNOG. Regards, Sahil Gupta Senior Account Manager NET4U LIMITED Phone: 0508-263-848 Fax: 07-8582659 Mobile: 029-366-6375

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RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

You have some valid points here. The whole thing is quite disappointing, and for many, quite frustrating. This abuse(a)net4u is also becoming a sore point, and clearly there has been an issue with this address. I can only chase up as much as was passed on to me. There are a number of other recommended tasks which were to be carried out but have not :( Please contact me off-list with more details, and I will be happy to deal with things. As I said, I'm sill helping Net4U (Unpaid I might add) here and there when I am not involved with my regular clients. If anyone else is reading this and has ANY issues with Net4U that have been ignored, please feel free to contact me off-list or directly on 021409987, and I will to my best to deal with things. This is not the place for this nonsense, so lets get all this off-list, contact me, and lets get everyone happy. If no one has any other abuse they want to throw this way, perhaps we can move back to other interesting threads such as Multicast which I enjoyed following? How about why ISP's should/shouldn't be able to control assignment of IP addresses on ADSL Starter? Anyone have any views on this? Cheers, Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Howes [mailto:mish(a)doomx.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 6:49 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Each time the topic of Net4u has come up I've resisted posting as previously the entire situation was already at boiling point, but suggesting people are here to play when they're obviously just frustrated by actions that they see as detremental and disrespectful to other New Zealand Network Operators really rubs me the wrong way. Net4u does seem to be operating in a more legal fashion than before but they're still not admin friendly by any stretch of the imagination. I've received spam from net4u customers to domains I previously managed, I contacted Net4u to advise them of this ( abuse(a)net4u.co.nz) but have never received any response. I was also informed of a 'hole' in their security through which anyone can log into the net4u network and gain free ADSL service by use of an 'admin' account, I emailed the administrator of net4u to advise of this but despite sending two emails I never received a response and (I just tested) the hole still seems to be wide open. I'm glad you see the spam from Net4u as a bad thing as even though the operators of Net4u are (reasonably) new to the game, in this 'net enabled' age even the newest player has no excuse for thinking that unsolicited commercial email to a soa address is a good idea, the same goes for their previous dubious actions. You can feel free to view comments like these as 'pettiness' but I for one am glad to be informed of the actions (or inaction) of New Zealand ISPs even if the observations are at times coloured by external factors. -- Regards, Dave Howes.

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LOL - Tis so odd.....
by Michael Hallager 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Richard's entire post looks clearly like a Sahil marketing effort: COPY We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. /COPY YEAH RIGHT. We all have the MP3 of Sahil BOASTING about taking bandwidth. How do you reconcile that with your above claim? I think we would all like the answer. Sahil also ropes his friends into fronting for him, including doing the following actions, both people have admitted that Sahil got them to contact me: 1) Sending me an abusive email 2) Contacting me to rent several thousand dollars worth of equipment that I would never loan to Sahil. COPY > I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" > email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations > and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which > left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no > justification for this blatant deformation. /COPY Don't like the heat, get out of the fire. You knew full well what you were getting into when you associated yourself with Net4u by doing this contracting job. COPY It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. /COPY OK, whatever. I have a small **** or a demon or whatever (This is starting to sound like whacky religious stuff). How did you KNOW??? Michael Hallager Managing Director Networkstuff / Comsolve

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RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Thanks Dan. There are one or two ISP's and their administrators out there that have been VERY generous, sympathetic and helpful towards Sahil & Net4U and yet more who have been giving Net4U advise, and telling him off when needed :). As I say, Net4U are "growing up" slowly, but like me, are bound to make mistakes along the way. I enjoy helping others where help is needed, but sometimes this pisses other people off, especially those that don't think that particular person or business deserves to be helped or to get ahead, and I'm not just talking about Net4U. Anyway, rest assured, he has just had a verbal assault from me for yet again, not thinking carefully and using common sense before acting. ie sending Spam etc Thanks for your patience and understanding everyone. He wont be doing that again. :) Cheers, Richard. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Clark [mailto:dan(a)scarfies.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 4:04 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering I have to agree with Richard here, the problem is the young man who set this particular ISP up has historicly been ignorant as to some of the ethical rules and unwritten policy's of the internet community. We all make mistakes and maybe he just needs a little guidance and support from fellow ISP's who, will no doubt have started from penny's in the early days themselves. Regards Dan Clark Network Manager Scarfies.Net Ltd ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard <mailto:Richard(a)sigel.co.nz> Parkinson To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 3:35 PM Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. We no longer oversee the operation of Net4U, but have kept in touch with them, and assist with other matters both business related and technical, and feel Net4U & Sahil are slowly "growing up" so to speak, but I expect mystiques will still be made from time to time. None of us are perfect. I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no justification for this blatant deformation. I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters are. It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. Without naming anyone, I would also like to point out that there are those of you on this list making such accusations who are the last people to do so, or should we raise the matter of a VAST amount of bandwidth stolen from Telecom for a number of months, by a much larger ISP than Net4U, who even taught another ISP's network administrator how to do it only days before Telecom figured it all out... or perhaps I could send the list a copy of some forged court documents? To these few people I say, I suggest you stop stirring the pot and leave the past alone, or you will get more than just a little of it on you. I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Cheers, Richard Parkinson (Director) Sigel Data Systems Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Whitmore [mailto:lennon(a)orcon.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 2:13 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; Steve Phillips Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering If anyone had forgotten, where is the "Report" from Sigel Systems about Net4u's runnings over the last 3 months. I believe the impartial 3rd party was hired as one of net4u's staff a very short while after (so couldn't be impartial) Thanks Craig > >> >[snippage] > > > We can deliver using several methods as I've outlined above and can also > > > take care of transporting your existing I.P. Address ranges supplied to > > > you by your current provider to us. > > That would be a neat trick. Almost worth taking him up on that just to > watch him fail dismally. _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog _____ _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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APE Peering
by Sahil Gupta - NET4U LIMITED 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Hi, This announcement is more centered towards Network Administrators at ISP's that are connected to the APE. Net4U (www.net4u.co.nz) connected to the APE since May 2003 and since then have been peering with a number of ISP's around the country. We are currently looking for more ISP's to peer with and so if you feel that we could have a domestic peering arrangement between your ISP and Net4U, please get back to me off-list as we would be more than happy to do so. Regards, Sahil Gupta Senior Account Manager NET4U LIMITED Phone: 0508-263-848 Fax: 07-8582659 Mobile: 029-366-6375

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APE Peering
by Richard Patterson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

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RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

We have made a brief report which is not for public viewing, but which has identified a small number of issues on the Net4U network (which were quickly rectified) that were as a result of previous employees. We found nothing that was causing deliberate loss of bandwidth to any other party. We did not fully complete the work due to budget restraints, however we did cover most of the important aspects. Some of our recommendations have been implemented, and sadly others have not been done, but Net4U are operating somewhat better than they were. We no longer oversee the operation of Net4U, but have kept in touch with them, and assist with other matters both business related and technical, and feel Net4U & Sahil are slowly "growing up" so to speak, but I expect mystiques will still be made from time to time. None of us are perfect. I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no justification for this blatant deformation. I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters are. It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from school, dishing out what you received. Without naming anyone, I would also like to point out that there are those of you on this list making such accusations who are the last people to do so, or should we raise the matter of a VAST amount of bandwidth stolen from Telecom for a number of months, by a much larger ISP than Net4U, who even taught another ISP's network administrator how to do it only days before Telecom figured it all out... or perhaps I could send the list a copy of some forged court documents? To these few people I say, I suggest you stop stirring the pot and leave the past alone, or you will get more than just a little of it on you. I think we should all take a good look at ourselves, and the motivation behind the pettiness that from time to time, makes me wonder just how many children play on this list, and how many people are here to get work/business done. Lets just get on with our work please everyone. Cheers, Richard Parkinson (Director) Sigel Data Systems Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Whitmore [mailto:lennon(a)orcon.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 2:13 p.m. To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; Steve Phillips Subject: Re: [nznog] APE Peering If anyone had forgotten, where is the "Report" from Sigel Systems about Net4u's runnings over the last 3 months. I believe the impartial 3rd party was hired as one of net4u's staff a very short while after (so couldn't be impartial) Thanks Craig > >> >[snippage] > > > We can deliver using several methods as I've outlined above and can also > > > take care of transporting your existing I.P. Address ranges supplied to > > > you by your current provider to us. > > That would be a neat trick. Almost worth taking him up on that just to > watch him fail dismally. _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Simon Byrnand 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

At 15:35 3/07/03 +1200, Richard Parkinson wrote: >I must say that I also disagree with the method of advertising chosen. Had >I been consulted I would have recommended against it, but in saying that, >I welcome email in my inbox that relates directly to my line of business >and would rather receive such email as opposed to the ones about >increasing the size of certain body parts or some other "amazing offer" >which we see all to often of late, depending on how good your mail filters >are. > Sorry, but that doesn't wash with me, or I suspect most members of the list. Spam is Spam whether its trying to sell me Viagra or Bandwidth. Anybody that received that mailout (fortunately I didn't) who had no previous business dealings with Net4U could be legitimately annoyed by it. The sample "message" appeared to be addressed to soa@ which suggests it might have been taken from domain or APNIC contact details. >It doesn't take much for everyone to see that some of you are making an >issue simply because it's Sahil and Net4U, and because you were a reject >at school who was picked on and bullied, and now have a psychological >disorder resulting in you playing out the role of your boyhood deamon from >school, dishing out what you received. > Pot, Kettle, Black ? Regards, Simon

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RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

I did say disagree with the "spam" method used. I agree this thread is a waste of time and should die. -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gordon(a)morenet.net.nz] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:47 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering Richard, Was there any point to that message at all? Firstly, spam is spam, not "distributed" email. It is unsolicited commercial email, which this was. Secondly, I think you'll find that ANY provider that has previously behaved as poorly would attract a similar response. I really don't care if they are mystical or deformed, this is a breach of what is generally accepted as "acceptable conduct". Perhaps this thread should die - it has very little to do with network operations. Gordon Smith CCNA Network Operations Manager MoreNet Ltd PGP Fingerprint: 4B12 FBE4 784A 3294 6637 4587 AB6F C893 AB2C 952C

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RE: [nznog] APE Peering
by Richard Parkinson 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

And I knew this as soon as I saw it hit the list. Cheers -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Poole [mailto:lists(a)p00le.net] Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:45 p.m. To: Richard Parkinson Cc: NZNOG Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering Getting very OT here, but that word is EXCEPT! On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Richard Parkinson wrote: > Accept for a spelling error or two. :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Juha Saarinen [ mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] > Sent: Thursday, 3 July 2003 3:44 p.m. > Cc: NZNOG > Subject: RE: [nznog] APE Peering > > > > On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Richard Parkinson wrote: > > > I can assure you the bandwidth offered by Net4U in that "distributed" > > email is legitimate, and I should warn you that continued accusations > > and alligations are a direct attack against me and my company, which > > left Net4U operating legally and above board, and there is no > > justification for this blatant deformation. > > Priceless. > > > -- > Juha Saarinen > _______________________________________________ > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > >

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