- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Archives of this list. 'official' policy.
by Colin Palmer 09 Dec '01

09 Dec '01

[having permission to say this on behalf of the UoW ITS department this time: ] Basically, we're going to side with all the others that said editing a post to remove public infomation even once will be starting a precedent we don't want. So: We are not going to be editing anything, nor requiring list owners to excercise any kind of editorial control if they don't wish. Though we will, of course, co-operate with the office of the New Zealand Privacy Commissioner in any case that is brought to their attention. -- ** Colin Palmer, Systems and Development Group, University of Waikato, NZ ** - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: The Archives, Again
by Simon Byrnand 08 Dec '01

08 Dec '01

At 12:54 PM 7/12/01 +1300, Frank March wrote: >Under the Privacy Act, anyone is entitled to ask for information held about >them on a database (a Web site qualifies as such under the Act IIRC) to be >corrected or amended, or deleted should the information no longer have any >purpose in being stored. [snip] Nice argument, except for the fact that the list archives are *archives* not a database. If the law considers any website regardless of content as automatically being a database, then the law is stupid and in need of changing. Is an old newspaper considered a database just because it might have information on people? (no, its an archive) no difference here. The list archives are just an automated, electronic version of what librarians have been doing with newspapers for years - archiving articles for future record. If somebody libels you in a newspaper article, can you go around telling all the librarians in the country to cut that page out of their archive version of the newspaper ? I think not. Get a retraction printed in a future edition, yes. I don't see a difference here. Just because technology makes it *possible* to do revisionist censorship of archives doesn't mean we should...and yes, I think Joe Ableys idea is a good one :) Regards, Simon - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: The Archives, Again
by Joe Abley 07 Dec '01

07 Dec '01

On Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 09:55:28AM +1300, Rob Isaac wrote: > On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Joe Abley wrote: > > > I threw an archive up on a machine outside NZ: > > > > http://archive.nznog.org/ > > Note that the URLs to individual messages are not equivalent, and that the > message Donald is enquiring about is: > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html > > But in the unofficial archive, the URL is: > > http://archive.nznog.org/2001-10/msg00137.html Oh, yeah. The thing I just threw up is not a mirror of the waikato archive; it is generated quite independently by list mail being received. I seeded it with archive mail I requested from majordomo at waikato, which was subsequently fake-delivered though it was new mail in order to build the archive history. The chances of URLs being equivalent between the two archives are somewhat remote. Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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The Archives, Again
by Donald Neal 07 Dec '01

07 Dec '01

NZNOG People, On 9 October this year, a Domainz registration record was posted to this list. That included the name, address and phone numbers of a domain name holder who has no association with this list. He has now written to The University of Waikato asking them to remove his personal details from the archive for this list. That request has been passed on to me. My views on this are: 1/ The archive isn't my property, and I won't accept responsibility for its contents. 2/ Past threats by subscribers to publish their own copies of the archive make such changes of little practical use. 3 / Since 1/, and 2/ have not had any apparent impact on the man in question, I have no problem with asking subscribers about this, and agreeing to the removal of holder personal details (only) from the posting in question if subscribers are happy with that. So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can be read at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so promptly and briefly. - Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Administrator -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd "WorldSecure Server <telecom.co.nz>" made the following annotations on 12/07/01 11:46:43 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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OT:A call to arms, to help a lowly newbie Cisco guy!
by Malcolm Lockyer 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

Hey All! Well, I recently took on the task of configuring a cisco 2503 to work on a frame relay. As anyone who has looked at the cisco documentation would note, that it isn't very user friendly for newbies, and it aint very consise. Today I spent 1 1/2 hours tryin' to configure the 2503 (note, although it is a 2503, we are not using the ISDN interface - we are only using the 2503 because it was aquired very cost effectivly BG). I can make the Ethernet interface work with no problems at all, and can ping and so forth back and forth between a linux box. I cannot make it do anything with the frame interface, the system summary tells me that the interface is okay - and it is 'up', but pings to specfic I.P's do nothing, as do pings from the linux box ( I have setup the default gateway properly). I know people would charge a lot of money for advice like this, but I'm appealing to anybody who kinda knows what they are doing when it comes to 2500 series routers. Make this your good dead of the year BG. So, if anybody could run through the process of configuring a 2503 for a single frame relay on Serial0, and what I have to type, and do etc. and the local settings (like the routing protocal used). It would be more appreciated than you could ever imagine :D. And I'd find a way to pay you back (at least partialy) somtime. Well, THANK YOU VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE!! Just a little info about our setup: The 2503 is connected to an NTU via an x.21 cable on Serial0. The frame has a PVC of 64K - and will be used for radius. It is tempararily connected through an AUI to Ethernet adaptor, to a hub ( will be a switch once it works :P). Well, I just have to say THANK YOU once again :D. Best regards, Malcolm (hivemind) Lockyer _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: The Archives, Again
by Frank March 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

<also encompassing comments from John Russell and Chris Wedgewood, and Simon Brynand subsequently> This case is altogether different from the last request that was made: in that case the person was a poster to this list and compounded the issue by making further statements on the list. The issue here is that someone whose name is not in any way associated with this list has had his details published on the list. Were this transient it probably would not matter at all. But the list is archived and on the Waikato University Web site at that. The fact that the same information is available on other publicly accessible Web sites or through Whois or whatever is not relevant. Under the Privacy Act, anyone is entitled to ask for information held about them on a database (a Web site qualifies as such under the Act IIRC) to be corrected or amended, or deleted should the information no longer have any purpose in being stored. The person concerned is exercising a legal right and Waikato University is obliged to recognise that. I am surprised that the request to Donald has not been couched rather more forcefully. If action is not taken it may well be; it is not impossible that Waikato University could request that this list be removed from the site altogether. They would be entitled to do so. In my view Donald, respecting the note you have made that you are not responsible for the archive and/or its contents; but in view of the responsibility you take on yourself to act as guardian of the list standards, if not as list moderator, you have no choice but to proceed as you have suggested and delete the person's personal details. The lesson here for us all, as noted by Chris already in his note, is that we should take care in the information placed onto the list (and hence the archive) if it is not ours to begin with. Frank March Specialist Advisor, IT Policy Group Ministry of Economic Development, PO Box 1473, Wellington, NZ Ph: (+64 4) 474 2908; Fax: (+64 4) 471 2658 > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Lyall [SMTP:simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, 7 December 2001 12:27 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: The Archives, Again > > On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Donald Neal wrote: > > So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and > > holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can > > be read at > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and > > replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request > > of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so > > promptly and briefly. > > I'm a little confused as to why they want this removed, since exactly the > same information is on domainz's web site (and would be in the whois > database if it was working). I've checked and the information doesn't > appear to have been changed between what domains has now and what is on > the archive. > > > > -- > Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz > Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz > ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: > http://www.darkmere.gen.nz > > - > To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > where the body of your message reads: > unsubscribe nznog Any opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the Ministry of Economic Development. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: The Archives, Again
by Simon Byrnand 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

At 04:04 PM 7/12/01 +1300, Tony McGregor wrote: >Sure, but when he does find some one holding information about him, in >NZ, the privacy act gives him the right to ask for it to be corrected. No data here needs "correcting" - the data is still up to date according to the domainz page. :-) (Ok, we're wildly off topic here, so I'll shut up now) Regards, Simon - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: The Archives, Again
by Mark Foster 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

I dont see the big deal insofar as what on earth are we doing that needs to be hidden from NZ jurisdiction? We have nothing to hide - isnt that the problem, that our archives are not hidden? :p I agree with the newspaper anology to a large degree - you cant change the past, even if its stored electronically and therefore is *able* to be modified. The only exception I would make was in the case of excessively libelious comments.. Where only the facts are recorded, it shouldnt be that big a deal? Im not sure if I should ask the question 'who reads our archives anyway?' because i'll probably find theres a lot of closet NZNOG'rs out there.. :) At 15:09 7/12/01 +1300, you wrote: >The Canadian Privacy Act is very similar in many respects to the New Zealand >one, slightly more strict I understand, but based on the same OECD Privacy >Guidelines and in full accord with the EU Directive on Privacy (NZ is >delinquent in some respects according to the EU). > >I am not sure quite what the position is wrt persons from outside Canadian >jurisdiction but Canadian law may be more likely to accommodate concerned NZ >citizens with info held on them in Canada than vice versa, as I understand >it. > *snip* - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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nzno@lionra.net.nzRe: The Archives, Again (fwd
by Andy Linton 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Donald Neal wrote: > So, I'm proposing that the lines between holder_name and > holder_addr_citycountry inclusive be removed from the posting which can > be read at > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/2001/10/msg00046.html and > replaced with a note stating that they have been removed at the request > of the name holder. Could anyone objecting to this please say so > promptly and briefly. Given that the Domainz Terms of Service say: --- Use of information collected The management of the DNS involves the collection of personal information to provide public name listing services. This is in line with other Internet domain name registration services world-wide. Information is collected in one of two ways: * by .nz Provider/Agents acting on behalf of a name holder, or * directly from the name holder through the Domainz web site All information collected will be considered as information within the public domain. It may be published on the Domainz web site, and will be accessible to all users of the Internet. --- it seems difficult to see how someone can object to that information being accessible to those users of the Internet who access the NZNOG list archive. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: The Archives, Again
by Frank March 06 Dec '01

06 Dec '01

The Canadian Privacy Act is very similar in many respects to the New Zealand one, slightly more strict I understand, but based on the same OECD Privacy Guidelines and in full accord with the EU Directive on Privacy (NZ is delinquent in some respects according to the EU). I am not sure quite what the position is wrt persons from outside Canadian jurisdiction but Canadian law may be more likely to accommodate concerned NZ citizens with info held on them in Canada than vice versa, as I understand it. Frank March Specialist Advisor, IT Policy Group Ministry of Economic Development, PO Box 1473, Wellington, NZ Ph: (+64 4) 474 2908; Fax: (+64 4) 471 2658 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Abley [SMTP:jabley(a)automagic.org] > Sent: Friday, 7 December 2001 15:01 > To: Tony McGregor > Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: The Archives, Again > > On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 02:11:23PM +1300, Tony McGregor wrote: > > Moving the archive off shore won't help either if the information is > > "held by" a New Zealand agency. I.E. if the list is a UoW list but > > someone else hosts the archives it's probably still covered. > > I'm not convinced I understand how the UoW could entice me to edit > my archives, speaking as a resident of Canada, and with reference > to an archive hosted in the US. > > But I'm happy to host the list too, if that helps :) Any opinions expressed in this message are not necessarily those of the Ministry of Economic Development. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivery to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your computer. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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