Hi Daniel, Davey, Ray, Tristram, On 19 November 2015 at 13:04, Tristram Cheer wrote:

Under the current UFB structure there is no scope for RSP supplied or end user supplied pluggable optics

That's not true - we've come *very* close to having naked/glass BS4 connections, but we've yet to actually install one, because every time it's Really Happening, it's "argh optics, too hard need service tomorrow, give me copper plzkthxbai". On 19 November 2015 at 17:18, Davey Goode wrote:

Alu do an ont on a sfp, I was talking to some chorus people a year + back about them Would be awesome if they released them especially for business connections

Optic compatibility & scale of deployment are also two of the reasons why we haven't pursued SFP ONTs - because then if I supply the optic, you have to make it work in your kit; and then when it doesn't work we argue until all the beer money has been spent on test equipment and lab time. If we can't get it working with simple Ethernet, what hope do we have with GPON? Note: opinions are my own, etc etc. Thanks, Jed.

https://www.chorus.co.nz/file/48695/chorus-ufb-services-agreement-service-de scription-for-bitstream-4.pdf 3.1.12 The termination point of the Layer 2 component of the Bitstream 4 Service is as applicable, either: (a) For an RJ45 electrical interface the 100/1000/10GBase-T UNI on the NID; or. (b) For an optic fibre glass only interface the 100Base-FX /1000GBase-LX Layer 1 termination point described in clause 3.1.11. For BS2/3(a) services (as they are GPON) it's a completely different Story has it HAS to come from the ONT. There are many types of "UFB" -----Original Message----- From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Jed Laundry Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2015 8:15 p.m. To: Tristram Cheer; ray(a)ruralkiwi.com; davey(a)latte.net.nz Cc: NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] nzwrt redux? Hi Daniel, Davey, Ray, Tristram, On 19 November 2015 at 13:04, Tristram Cheer wrote:

Under the current UFB structure there is no scope for RSP supplied or end user supplied pluggable optics

That's not true - we've come *very* close to having naked/glass BS4 connections, but we've yet to actually install one, because every time it's Really Happening, it's "argh optics, too hard need service tomorrow, give me copper plzkthxbai".

My main complaint about the turris omnis is lack any FXS voice port. Removing wifi isn’t really an option - I would prefer the wifi to be built on to the main pcb to save costs rather than a pcie card. There also doesn’t appear to be a 24v POE output on the WAN port or any external battery backup connector. So they have effectively eliminated most ISPs from being bulk customers. A $100 router doesn’t scare me much if it performs well, can be screwed to the wall etc. But it needs those features listed above for us as an ISP to want to issue it to customers. Sure you can add an ATA and that battery backup product that an NZ company made for UFB installs but that is all extra wires. Ray Taylor Taylor Communications ray(a)ruralkiwi.com Napier: 06-929-9082 Waipukurau: 06-928-0549 -----Original Message----- From: Dave Taht [mailto:dave.taht(a)gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2015 10:09 p.m. To: Jed Laundry Cc: Tristram Cheer; Ray Taylor; davey(a)latte.net.nz; Daniel Christie; NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] nzwrt redux? A couple notes: People are complaining about the pricepoint for the turris omnis. *with sales volume* that pricepoint decreases. Also, my thought was it would go out "bare" for the basic gpon connection, no wifi cards, case with a customized label... Secondly, merely proving out/building a box that CAN do gpon well does not go "oh god optics" - it establishes what can be done with validated hardware and software and makes room for cost-reductions to follow. What would it take to tackle the latter? Dave Täht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Jed Laundry wrote:

Hi Daniel, Davey, Ray, Tristram,

On 19 November 2015 at 13:04, Tristram Cheer wrote:

...

Under the current UFB structure there is no scope for RSP supplied or end user supplied pluggable optics

That's not true - we've come *very* close to having naked/glass BS4 connections, but we've yet to actually install one, because every time it's Really Happening, it's "argh optics, too hard need service tomorrow, give me copper plzkthxbai".

On 19 November 2015 at 17:18, Davey Goode wrote:

...

Alu do an ont on a sfp, I was talking to some chorus people a year + back about them Would be awesome if they released them especially for business connections

Optic compatibility & scale of deployment are also two of the reasons why we haven't pursued SFP ONTs - because then if I supply the optic, you have to make it work in your kit; and then when it doesn't work we argue until all the beer money has been spent on test equipment and lab time. If we can't get it working with simple Ethernet, what hope do we have with GPON?

Note: opinions are my own, etc etc.

Thanks, Jed.

The network is GPON, which means that it uses multiple frequencies/wavelengths. The ONT at an address is set to detect/use one particular frequency (pair). If moved to a different address it won't get the frequency it expects.... On Fri, 2015-11-20 at 16:03 +1300, Paul Adshead wrote:

Each of the ONT's get programmed with a Chorus-known ID (and I'm guessing login). Are all of these unique ID's (- essentially hostnames?) needed for day-to-day operation, or only for remote administration, etc? I note each site install tells you NOT to move the ONT to a new premise should you move, which I'm guessing means Chorus are expecting a certain ONT ID number to be on the end of a certain circuit. Having the optical network terminating on non-Chorus gear, would most likely cause a heap of issues.

Regards, Paul Adshead.

On 20 November 2015 at 09:34, Ray Taylor wrote:

...

My main complaint about the turris omnis is lack any FXS voice port. Removing wifi isn’t really an option - I would prefer the wifi to be built on to the main pcb to save costs rather than a pcie card. There also doesn’t appear to be a 24v POE output on the WAN port or any external battery backup connector.

So they have effectively eliminated most ISPs from being bulk customers.

A $100 router doesn’t scare me much if it performs well, can be screwed to the wall etc. But it needs those features listed above for us as an ISP to want to issue it to customers. Sure you can add an ATA and that battery backup product that an NZ company made for UFB installs but that is all extra wires.

Ray Taylor Taylor Communications ray(a)ruralkiwi.com

Napier: 06-929-9082 Waipukurau: 06-928-0549

-----Original Message----- From: Dave Taht [mailto:dave.taht(a)gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2015 10:09 p.m. To: Jed Laundry Cc: Tristram Cheer; Ray Taylor; davey(a)latte.net.nz; Daniel Christie; NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] nzwrt redux?

A couple notes:

People are complaining about the pricepoint for the turris omnis. *with sales volume* that pricepoint decreases. Also, my thought was it would go out "bare" for the basic gpon connection, no wifi cards, case with a customized label...

Secondly, merely proving out/building a box that CAN do gpon well does not go "oh god optics" - it establishes what can be done with validated hardware and software and makes room for cost-reductions to follow.

What would it take to tackle the latter?

Dave Täht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Jed Laundry

...

wrote:

...

Hi Daniel, Davey, Ray, Tristram,

On 19 November 2015 at 13:04, Tristram Cheer wrote:

...

Under the current UFB structure there is no scope for RSP supplied or end user supplied pluggable optics

That's not true - we've come *very* close to having naked/glass BS4 connections, but we've yet to actually install one, because every time it's Really Happening, it's "argh optics, too hard need service tomorrow, give me copper plzkthxbai".

On 19 November 2015 at 17:18, Davey Goode wrote:

...

Alu do an ont on a sfp, I was talking to some chorus people a year + back about them Would be awesome if they released them especially for business connections

Optic compatibility & scale of deployment are also two of the reasons why we haven't pursued SFP ONTs - because then if I supply the optic, you have to make it work in your kit; and then when it doesn't work we argue until all the beer money has been spent on test equipment and lab time. If we can't get it working with simple Ethernet, what hope do we have with GPON?

Note: opinions are my own, etc etc.

Thanks, Jed.

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

How far are you going to trust all these devices? https://w00tsec.blogspot.de/2015/11/arris-cable-modem-has-backdoor-in.html?m... The one gpon device with which I am somewhat familiar.... runs an embedded 2.6.32 kernel, with no patches for the past 3 years. Dave Täht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Peter Lambrechtsen wrote:

On Nov 20, 2015 4:03 PM, "Paul Adshead" wrote:

...

Each of the ONT's get programmed with a Chorus-known ID (and I'm guessing login). Are all of these unique ID's (- essentially hostnames?) needed for day-to-day operation, or only for remote administration, etc? I note each site install tells you NOT to move the ONT to a new premise should you move, which I'm guessing means Chorus are expecting a certain ONT ID number to be on the end of a certain circuit. Having the optical network terminating on non-Chorus gear, would most likely cause a heap of issues.

Yes. The installers set the GPON SLID which is another completely different number from the RemoteID. The SLID will only work on one PON port.

Really Jed has it right. The ONT should be LFC supplied and owned gear. Then as a RSP then you can get on with just dot1q tags over PPPoE/IPoE, DEI bits or DHCP Relays and the other things that are super easy and never take any complexity to implement.

Adding layer 1 issues ontop of all the other issues sounds like a hiding to nothing. Is installing an ONT really such an issue??

...

Regards, Paul Adshead.

On 20 November 2015 at 09:34, Ray Taylor wrote:

...

My main complaint about the turris omnis is lack any FXS voice port. Removing wifi isn’t really an option - I would prefer the wifi to be built on to the main pcb to save costs rather than a pcie card. There also doesn’t appear to be a 24v POE output on the WAN port or any external battery backup connector.

So they have effectively eliminated most ISPs from being bulk customers.

A $100 router doesn’t scare me much if it performs well, can be screwed to the wall etc. But it needs those features listed above for us as an ISP to want to issue it to customers. Sure you can add an ATA and that battery backup product that an NZ company made for UFB installs but that is all extra wires.

Ray Taylor Taylor Communications ray(a)ruralkiwi.com

Napier: 06-929-9082 Waipukurau: 06-928-0549

-----Original Message----- From: Dave Taht [mailto:dave.taht(a)gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2015 10:09 p.m. To: Jed Laundry Cc: Tristram Cheer; Ray Taylor; davey(a)latte.net.nz; Daniel Christie; NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] nzwrt redux?

A couple notes:

People are complaining about the pricepoint for the turris omnis. *with sales volume* that pricepoint decreases. Also, my thought was it would go out "bare" for the basic gpon connection, no wifi cards, case with a customized label...

Secondly, merely proving out/building a box that CAN do gpon well does not go "oh god optics" - it establishes what can be done with validated hardware and software and makes room for cost-reductions to follow.

What would it take to tackle the latter?

Dave Täht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Jed Laundry wrote:

...

Hi Daniel, Davey, Ray, Tristram,

On 19 November 2015 at 13:04, Tristram Cheer wrote:

...

Under the current UFB structure there is no scope for RSP supplied or end user supplied pluggable optics

That's not true - we've come *very* close to having naked/glass BS4 connections, but we've yet to actually install one, because every time it's Really Happening, it's "argh optics, too hard need service tomorrow, give me copper plzkthxbai".

On 19 November 2015 at 17:18, Davey Goode wrote:

...

Alu do an ont on a sfp, I was talking to some chorus people a year + back about them Would be awesome if they released them especially for business connections

Optic compatibility & scale of deployment are also two of the reasons why we haven't pursued SFP ONTs - because then if I supply the optic, you have to make it work in your kit; and then when it doesn't work we argue until all the beer money has been spent on test equipment and lab time. If we can't get it working with simple Ethernet, what hope do we have with GPON?

Note: opinions are my own, etc etc.

Thanks, Jed.

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

-- Paul Adshead 021 890 258 paul.adshead(a)gmail.com

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

_______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

It looks like a SC connector, not a SCA connector so even if someone knew the ID to make it work (The special one they put into the unit when they install it), the two ends of the Fibres would damage each other. From: nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart Campbell Sent: Monday, 23 November 2015 4:27 p.m. To: Dave Taht Cc: nznog Subject: Re: [nznog] nzwrt redux? FYI Mikrotik just announced an SFP GPON module for their routers - http://www.campbell.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info <http://www.campbell.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25&product s_id=781> &cPath=25&products_id=781 Stuart Campbell {scampbell(a)campbell.co.nz} mailto:scampbell(a)campbell.co.nz Regarding: