March 2003 - NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Re: [nznog] Moderation etc.
by Michael Hallager 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:17, Juha Saarinen wrote: [SNIP] > I think you're probably asking a lot of Donald there. So he's to work out > a definition of what exactly constitutes a NZ network operator (ie. > network operators from other countries are banned) and then verify who > exactly fits the definition. How would he do that? I quite agree. There are many networks in NZ and many operators. Would op's of internet connected companies qualify or just op's of ISP's? Would VISP's qualify? Alot of them don't know very much about operating an Internet network, which is why they are "VISP's", and yet they should still be welcome here and be able to contribute. > Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not how NANOG operates. If they > can handle the occasional outburst of off-topic messages, and I'm sure > they get more of that on NANOG than on NZNOG, then the participants on > this list are probably able to do so as well. I say that this is a knee-jerk reaction to some of Sahil's friends causing trouble. I vote that we ignore them and continue on as per usual. > Closing NZNOG would set a bad example, IMO. There is enough "clubs" and "secret societies" in the world without closing NZNOG based on the whims and ideals of a few. The Internet is meant to be a tool of democracy and an open one at that. Lets keep it that way. How can we criticise [The NZ closed club of the Internet] if we go and do the same? Michael Hallager Managing Director Comsolve Networks (NZ) LImited Networkstuff Limited -------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] Moderation etc.
by Ian Quinn 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

> Note that I'm basically discussing "rights to post" here. I'm not >From vague memory, nanog had two levels of subscription (read only, and read/post). Maybe the same thing could be done here. Then if they abuse it, shift people off the read/post list more aggressively than currently is the case. They don't lose the ability to hear what's going on. Regards / Ian -----Original Message----- From: Simon Blake [mailto:simon(a)citylink.co.nz] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 3:03 PM To: Michael Hallager Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] Moderation etc. On Fri, Mar 28, 2003 at 02:32:40PM +1200, Michael Hallager said: > > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:17, Juha Saarinen wrote: > > [SNIP] > > > I think you're probably asking a lot of Donald there. So he's to work out > > a definition of what exactly constitutes a NZ network operator (ie. > > network operators from other countries are banned) and then verify who > > exactly fits the definition. How would he do that? > > I quite agree. There are many networks in NZ and many operators. > Would op's of internet connected companies qualify or just op's of ISP's? > Would VISP's qualify? Alot of them don't know very much about > operating an Internet network, which is why they are "VISP's", and yet > they should still be welcome here and be able to contribute. Trial by a jury of your peers. If the members of the list know you as an operator, you get on. If they don't, you don't. There doesn't need to be any formal defn of what constitutes an operator, merely that the current members are happy for you to be on the list. In practice, I imagine this would become "unless you're a really annoying piece of work, and somebody complains vociferously about your request to join, you'll get on". Note that I'm basically discussing "rights to post" here. I'm not suggesting that the archives shouldn't be public, and if there was a way to allow Joe Random Public to join readonly without a vetting process, then that's all good as well. > > Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not how NANOG operates. If they > > can handle the occasional outburst of off-topic messages, and I'm sure > > they get more of that on NANOG than on NZNOG, then the participants on > > this list are probably able to do so as well. > > I say that this is a knee-jerk reaction to some of Sahil's friends causing > trouble. I vote that we ignore them and continue on as per usual. It's been a thought that's occurred to me and others every so often during at least the last four years. We could ignore them, or we could try and fix NZNOG to be a better thing, coz at the moment it's broken, teenagers or no. > > Closing NZNOG would set a bad example, IMO. > > There is enough "clubs" and "secret societies" in the world without closing > NZNOG based on the whims and ideals of a few. So, there are lots of closed lists, so we shouldn't tidy our one? > The Internet is meant to be a tool of democracy and an open one at that. The Internet isn't *meant* to be anything. It just is. I don't believe that the orginal creators of the 'net had anything to say about its democratic value. I'm prepared to stand corrected, of course. There are costs and barriers you must overcome to become a network operator. Why shouldn't there be a small barrier to you participating in a network operators list? > Lets keep it that way. Sounds like an arguement for untrammelled access to your mailbox by spammers to me. > How can we criticise [The NZ closed club of the Internet] if we go and do > the same? I didn't realise that criticism of the "The NZ closed club of the Internet" was part of NZNOG's role. Maybe that should be put on the list info pages :-). Cheers Si _______________________________________________ Nznog mailing list Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Heads up: 167.179.0.0/16 seems to be hijacked
by Juha Saarinen 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Allocated to Tower Group, but advertised by someone in Florida. http://openrbl.org/ip/167/179/4/67.htm http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S2425 http://spamhaus.org/SBL/sbl.lasso?query=SBL7859 Contains "interesting" domains like: m67.affordable-shopping.com [167.179.4.67] m116.your-products.net [167.179.1.116] m88.super-shops.net[167.179.3.88] m73.discount-shops.net[167.179.2.73] mx175.optin-america.com[196.4.167.179] It was used internally at Tower, but not advertised to the rest of the world, so it was easy prey apparently. Is this a common occurence on the Interweb? -- Juha Saarinen

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Price of APNIC /16 allocation?
by Juha Saarinen 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Could someone please give me a rough idea how much a /16 from APNIC would cost? -- Juha Saarinen

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RE: List of Admins.
by Xtra Security Team 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Hi All, The offender has been removed from the Xtra Network. Regards Xtra Security and Abuse Team Support : http://xtra.co.nz/security ******************************************** This email is for the person(s) identified above, and is confidential to the sender and the person(s). No one else is authorised to use or disseminate this email or its contents. The email or its contents do not necessarily represent the views of Xtra Limited or Telecom. ********************************************

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Re: [nznog] List of Admins.
by Craig Spiers 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

at least someone has their head screwed on straight this morning! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Whitmore" <lennon(a)orcon.net.nz> To: "Craig Spiers" <craig(a)concept.net.nz> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [nznog] List of Admins. > I've already complained to abuse(a)xtra >

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None
by craig＠concept.net.nz 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Im a fuckwit

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RE: [nznog] List of Admins.
by phuct up 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

I no like listen you, undastan? You are fucky me upy and I will resign upy Undastan? -----Original Message----- From: Donald Neal [mailto:Donald.Neal(a)telecom.co.nz] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 8:48 a.m. To: phuct_up(a)msn.com Subject: FW: [nznog] List of Admins. You appear to have made a number of postings to the NZNOG list yesterday without operational content and failing to show appropriate respect for other subscribers. This is a second warning as outlined in paragraph 10 of the AUP. Please immediately change the volume and nature of your postings to the list. Donald Neal Mailing List Administrator Donald Neal | piano - a musical Technical Specialist | shipping line. Network Delivery | [ Graeme Garden ] Telecom Corp. NZ Ltd | > -----Original Message----- > From: phuct up [mailto:phuct up(a)msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 22:48 > To: 'Matthew G Brown' > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > > > I leave you alone if you no post no more message, undastan? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:47 p.m. > To: 'phuct up' > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > > Leave me alone. I have networks to run. I am finished with my NET4U > posts. > > -----Original Message----- > From: phuct up [mailto:phuct up(a)msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:42 PM > To: 'Matthew G Brown' > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > > > Im osama. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:40 p.m. > To: 'phuct up' > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > > And you would be ?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: phuct up [mailto:phuct up(a)msn.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:34 PM > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: RE: [nznog] List of Admins. > Importance: High > > > I thought I tell you no post, okay? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew G Brown [mailto:Matt(a)Brh.Co.Nz] > Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 10:36 p.m. > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] List of Admins. > > What ever did happen to the list of NZ Network Admins. Was somone > maintaining an up to date page recently ? > > {sorry "osama"} > > Best Regards > > Matthew G Brown > Chief Executive > B & R Holdings LIMITED > Information Technology Holdings Company > http://www.brh.co.nz > > > > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > > > > > Nznog mailing list > Nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------

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Notice of Unsubscription - Updated
by Donald Neal 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

NZNOG People, As you will no doubt be aware, paragraph ten of this list's Acceptable Use Policy reads: 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. I have this morning unsubscribed the following addresses: mastermithras(a)yahoo.co.nz phuct up(a)msn.com - Donald Neal List Administrator Donald Neal | piano - a musical Technical Specialist | shipping line. Network Delivery | [ Graeme Garden ] Telecom Corp. NZ Ltd | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Nog list
by Tim John 27 Mar '03

27 Mar '03

Donald, <> I have this morning unsubscribed the address mastermithras(a)yahoo.co.nz. This is the first time in [counts on fingers] around seven years of this list's operation that this has been done. I'm disappointed that it was necessary. </> I understand your concerns, but how can it be disappointing to take this action against someone who obviously shouldn't have been on this list in the first place !! Surely people having the email insignia of 'a' and 'phuct up' are a dead giveaway of the type of people we DON'T want on the NOG. I think this thread in some aspects has expired and I have started using my trusty old "Delete" key to simply remove certain messages before reading them, particularly those from the two address mentioned above. I suggest the _real_ subscribers of this list follow suit and take the attitude that 'ignore them and they will go away'. I'm sure it's only fun for these guys if they get a response. My 2c Tim DISCLAIMER: The content of this email is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity named above. Access to this message by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that the use, distribution and publication of the above information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact Domainz by returning the email and destroying the original. Thank you.

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