- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Naming paradox
by Andy Linton 05 Sep '11

05 Sep '11

Isn't it strange that one of the single biggest topics for discussion on this list over the last few months has been a bunch of people with little or no legal background debating points of law. Anyone up for forming a new list 'nzbrl' - see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/barrack-room+lawyer

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An Experiment of Copyright .
by Craig Whitmore 05 Sep '11

05 Sep '11

I have made a file up and I have 100% copyright to it (as I made it). No one has any permission to view/download/copy/reproduce or anything the file except me (and there is only one of me) The file is at http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/copyright.txt . Do NOT download or view it or anything the file. I'm just file sharing the location of it so I don't forget the location but no one else is allowed to see it. Now lets see how many automated systems download the file or humans try and view MY file. Thanks Craig

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Re: [nznog] OT: Has anyone recieved a copyright notice yet?
by Lloyd Parkes 04 Sep '11

04 Sep '11

On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 14:25 +1200, Don Stokes wrote: > The irony of all this is that up until recently, many ISPs were > forwarding infringement notices to customers when they were received. > Usually, the fact that their activities were being noticed was > sufficient to stop them. > > But now, processing a copyright infringement notice is a paid-for > process, enshrined in law. And to encourage rights holders to use the > law "properly", notifications are no longer being sent to end users > unless the money is forthcoming. > > It seems to me that far fewer infringement notices will be reaching > end users now than before the law came into force ... But the ISPs don't have to be paid for handling an infringement notice. They only need to be paid if they are to pass it on to the customer. Replying and saying "give me money" still costs money, so we may get to the worse situation where more notices are sent to ISPs (because there is a legal process for this now), but fewer notices are sent to customers (because the process isn't followed) and the ISPs have to pay for it. Cheers, Lloyd This email and any attachment may contain confidential information. If you have received this email or any attachment in error, please delete the email / attachment, and notify the sender. Please do not copy, disclose or use the email, any attachment, or any information contained in them. Consider the environment before deciding to print: avoid printing if you can, or consider printing double-sided. Visit us online at ird.govt.nz

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OT: Has anyone recieved a copyright notice yet?
by Paul Brislen 04 Sep '11

04 Sep '11

What does it look like? What will you do with it? If you're at an ISP, have you received many notifications from rights holders yet? Are they in a useable format? Are they coming to the right people at the IPAP? Cheers and beers Paul Paul Brislen CEO, TUANZ T: +64 94881882 M: +64 21488188 email: paul(a)tuanz.org.nz<mailto:paul(a)tuanz.org.nz> @paulbrislen

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Fwd: Don't quite get this?
by Russell Fulton 02 Sep '11

02 Sep '11

Chiming in late here -- someone pointed me to the thread, I don't follow nznog closely these days… Made later by trying to post this from a private email address and having mailman bounce it. I have been heavily involved over a long period (over 10 years) in (trying;) to enforce the University's (UoA) policy on copyright. Note I say copyright policy *not* p2p ban policy. People here use BT to get legit stuff all the time although we do point out to them the torrents are inefficient use of our bandwidth and that we would prefer them to use ftp or http if they can. We occasionally get notices from the likes of BayTSP and we always check them out and warn the user concerned. There has been one case iirc where I had to warn someone more than once (and by that time the student was already in the disciplinary process for other reasons). A disclaimer: I am speaking for myself not as an official of the university (hence my attempt to post this from a non university address. I don't like this legislation at all it is poorly drafted and I believe it will likely result in the persecution of (relatively) innocent folk while the big fish go completely unhindered. I hope for everyones sake that the RHs behave in a sensible and responsible manner. Quite a few technical points/questions have been raised and I'll try and answer a few of them. Firstly, my experience is that all the reports I have had over the last 2 years say around 10 in total) have been accurate and timely. As Martin says I believe that the agents of the rights holders run client honeypot in the swarm which try and download specific titles. If your peer responds then they have a very positive link back to the IP and what it is offering for upload. We (the university) have been told by RH representatives that they are only going to target 'works' that are currently in the cinemas or have just been release on DVD. This is actually supported by the last couple of notices we got which were both for very topical items. I am sure that they do also have honey pots to catch down loading as well but my understanding is that the focus has moved to up loaders. The days where people were accused purely on the basis of their IP being in the list of peers indexes have long gone. The RH lost enough expensive court cases in the US that they now rely on active connection to their own honeypots to finger culprits. Passive methods have been demonstrated to be highly unreliable. I would be surprised if the notice that ISP receive from RH agents are unreliable and I would also be surprise if anyone who gets fingered can mount a credible defence even if they are innocent without strong support from their ISP. I've seen Matt P's posts and from a legal standpoint he is dead right, but about the only counter argument I can think of is along the lines "We were away that week and the ADSL router was turned off" something that the ISP can verify. One of the nasty features of this legislation is that the account holder is responsible for *all* traffic from their connection no matter who actually generated the traffic. At least we have three strikes which I am sure is to around the defence "the neighbour must have been piggy backing on my open wifi" I am sure the tribunal would assert that 'a reasonable person' would secure their wifi after the initial notice. ISP usage records are going to become very important and I would hope that when IPSs get a notice that they will at least verify that a credible data flow existed at the time in question. Months later when the matter gets to the tribunal is way too late. I don't recall seeing any requirement on the ISP other than identifying the user of the IP at the time. Some folk have raise questions about whether the RHs can meet the standards for the notices proposed by the legislation. My belief is that they can and have been doing this under the DMCA in the for years. My guess is that the requirements were lifted straight out of the DMCA. [DMCA == Digital Millennium Copyright Act (US) millennium give a hint of how old the act is]. Others have suggested challenging accuracy of times. You can bet that all RH agents can produce evidence that their time stamps are synched with reliable time sources. Any ISP that isn't able to do the same are arguably not fulfilling their obligations under the act. And if you ISPs think things are bad just spare a thought for the universities and other outfits that own their own address space. I know of three different legal interpretation of our status under the act: 1/ that the legislation does not apply at all 2/ that we are IPAPs 3/ that we are AHs and there are different expensive lawyers (a QC in our case) arguing for all three interpretations :( Different universities have come to different conclusions. I am pretty sure (given the preamble to the original bill) that 1/ is what parliament intended, but the legislation is unclear and hinges on what one considers "Core business" to mean. It is also unclear if an IP address holder must be either an IPAP or an AH with no possibility of being neither. The legislation is silent. As I said at the beginning I hope that the RHs will use this legislation responsibly and that this time next year we will wonder what all the fuss was about. I won't go as far as to say that this is what I expect but who knows I might be surprised. Russell

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Re: [nznog] Don't quite get this?
by Mark Harris 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

On 2/09/11 9:36 AM, Jay Daley wrote: > or the site supplying it does have the rights to is, in which case the downloader is not infringing because the RH has supplied it to them. No, I think not. Just because a fruit is in a position to be plucked, doesn't mean you have the right to pluck it, especially if you have to trespass to do so. Example: Libraries are full of books. Therefore, the books are available to be read. They are not available to be copied, however, even though the technology is right there in the library to do so. The RH can give themselves permission to upload their content to the net, but that does not imply that the AH has the right to download that content. Of course, IANAL, YMMV, yadda yadda yadda. ~mark

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Re: [nznog] An Experiment in Copyright
by Stu Fleming 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

>I have made a file up and I have 100% copyright to it (as I made it). No one >has any permission to view/download/copy/reproduce or anything the file >except me (and there is only one of me) >The file is at http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/copyright.txt . Do NOT download or >view it or anything the file. I'm just file sharing the location of it so I >don't forget the location but no one else is allowed to see it. >Now lets see how many automated systems download the file or humans try and >view MY file. Dear Craig, You got me. Good one. Please send me your billing details so that I can pay your settlement. Regards, Stu PS I hold the copyright to this message and I license it on the basis that on reading it, Craig Whitmore is liable to pay me $50. It is free of charge to all other readers.

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Re: [nznog] FW: An Experiment of CopyrightŠ .
by Jonas Bergler 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

Here's a link to a torrent a friend sent me. http://www.mediafire.com/?1xww480v8ykxjpv My friend also asked me what the the announce url of my public bittorrent tracker is. Jonas > From: Craig Whitmore <craig(a)voyager.co.nz> > Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 19:09:17 -0700 > To: Dave Green <dave.green(a)snowline.co.nz>, "nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz" < > nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] An Experiment of CopyrightŠ . > > 100+ copyright infringements so far… > > IP Addresses from mostly New Zealand IP Addresses and 2 government > departments ! . Some overseas addresses and some anonymous proxies > registered in the Seychelles > > I'll give a full report in a couple of days.. > > Thanks > > From: Dave Green <dave.green(a)snowline.co.nz> > Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 13:56:45 +1200 > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] An Experiment of CopyrightŠ . > > As you (and several others) have admitted to breaching the copyright and > have also supplied your contact details, efforts to track the actual data > path aren't really necessary :) > > > On 2/09/2011 1:56 p.m., Eslick, Chris wrote: > > Viewed from work connection over a proxy that does not log the internal IP. > **** > > ** ** > > So will work get the notice?**** > > ** ** > > *From:* nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [ > mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz <nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>] > *On Behalf Of *Craig Whitmore > *Sent:* Friday, 2 September 2011 1:43 p.m. > *To:* nznog List > *Subject:* [nznog] An Experiment of CopyrightŠ .**** > > ** ** > > I have made a file up and I have 100% copyright to it (as I made it). No > one has any permission to view/download/copy/reproduce or anything the file > except me (and there is only one of me)**** > > ** ** > > The file is at http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/copyright.txt . Do NOT download or > view it or anything the file. I'm just file sharing the location of it so I > don't forget the location but no one else is allowed to see it.**** > > ** ** > > Now lets see how many automated systems download the file or humans try > and view MY file.**** > > ** ** > > Thanks**** > > Craig**** > > ** ** > > ------------------------------ > > WARNING: This email and any file transmitted with it are confidential and > may be subject to legal privilege. You must not copy or deliver it to any > other person or use the contents in any unauthorised manner without express > permission of the sender. If you are not the intended addressee of this > e-mail, please delete it and notify the sender as soon as possible. > > All outgoing emails and attached files are virus scanned, but we do not > represent that this email and any attached files are free from computer > viruses or other defects. Further, we do not accept any liability for any > damage caused by this email or attachments. > > This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by > *MailMarshal * > > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing listNZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nzhttp://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog >

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NZRR Route Registry Update
by NZRR Database Notifications 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

Dear Colleague, This is to notify you that one or more objects in which you are designated for notification have been modified in the NZRR routing registry database. These objects are used to configure the various NZIX route servers (http://nzix.net/) so you can expect the relevant servers to be reloaded in the near future. The reloading of the servers is staggered over a period of time so that if you are peering with both servers at an exchange, you can maintain at least one BGP session at all times and consequently a full set of routes. Diagnostic output: ------------------------------------------------------------ --- PREVIOUS OBJECT: route-set: AS9560:RS-ROUTES:AS4826 descr: advertised to AS9560 by Vocus Communications - NO VERIFICATION NEEDED - AS4826 members: 49.224.0.0/14^14-29, 118.92.0.0/15^15-29, 27.252.0.0/16^16-29, 58.7.0.0/16^16-29, 58.28.0.0/16^16-29, 101.100.0.0/16^16-29, 118.90.0.0/16^16-29, 121.90.0.0/16^16-29, 124.148.0.0/16^16-29, 130.217.0.0/16^16-29, 131.203.0.0/16^16-29, 139.80.0.0/16^16-29, 157.128.0.0/16^16-29, 161.29.0.0/16^16-29, 161.65.0.0/16^16-29, 166.65.0.0/16^16-29, 182.154.0.0/16^16-29, 203.59.0.0/16^16-29, 220.253.0.0/16^16-29, 58.6.128.0/17^17-29, 113.203.0.0/17^17-29, 114.198.0.0/17^17-29, 124.149.0.0/17^17-29, 124.150.0.0/17^17-29, 124.168.0.0/17^17-29, 124.169.128.0/17^17-29, 124.170.0.0/17^17-29, 180.181.0.0/17^17-29, 203.109.128.0/17^17-29, 203.173.128.0/17^17-29, 210.48.0.0/17^17-29, 101.0.64.0/18^18-29, 116.90.0.0/18^18-29, 116.251.128.0/18^18-29, 118.67.0.0/18^18-29, 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Object abbreviated for readability] changed: rpsl-admin(a)nzix.net 20110902 source: NZRR ------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [nznog] Don't quite get this?
by Richard Naylor 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

At 11:54 a.m. 2/09/2011, Josh Farrelly wrote: >Because with the current data plans and pricing nobody in their right >mind is silly enough to torrent to their phone? Guess I'm silly. I run 5-6 USB sticks across both Telecom and Vodafone with either 4 or 8GB plans. We use one a day and then swap sticks. Generally we're uploading or live, but on a quiet month I do use them for downloading legit video from UCTV or UWTV or Berlin. Mobile broadband is nice and fast and better than ADSL, especially when you fly into a town for a few hours. We carry big antenna for them. (up to 27dbi) Otherwise you see us parked outside public places uploading via their wifi :-) In Hamilton, we park outside Shane Hobson's office. Would be handy if he'd put a 3 pin power plug outside and tell us where the nearest loo is. US broadcasters regularly use channel bonded mobile broadband for links. We just use single systems for now, but even NZ broadcasters use mobile bb. RNZ, TRN (NewstalkZB and Radiosport) and the IWI stations use it all the time. On TV they use it for News and generally cover any jitter issues with a "live via Internet" caption.

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