- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Fwd: Don't quite get this?
by Russell Fulton 02 Sep '11

02 Sep '11

Chiming in late here -- someone pointed me to the thread, I don't follow nznog closely these days… Made later by trying to post this from a private email address and having mailman bounce it. I have been heavily involved over a long period (over 10 years) in (trying;) to enforce the University's (UoA) policy on copyright. Note I say copyright policy *not* p2p ban policy. People here use BT to get legit stuff all the time although we do point out to them the torrents are inefficient use of our bandwidth and that we would prefer them to use ftp or http if they can. We occasionally get notices from the likes of BayTSP and we always check them out and warn the user concerned. There has been one case iirc where I had to warn someone more than once (and by that time the student was already in the disciplinary process for other reasons). A disclaimer: I am speaking for myself not as an official of the university (hence my attempt to post this from a non university address. I don't like this legislation at all it is poorly drafted and I believe it will likely result in the persecution of (relatively) innocent folk while the big fish go completely unhindered. I hope for everyones sake that the RHs behave in a sensible and responsible manner. Quite a few technical points/questions have been raised and I'll try and answer a few of them. Firstly, my experience is that all the reports I have had over the last 2 years say around 10 in total) have been accurate and timely. As Martin says I believe that the agents of the rights holders run client honeypot in the swarm which try and download specific titles. If your peer responds then they have a very positive link back to the IP and what it is offering for upload. We (the university) have been told by RH representatives that they are only going to target 'works' that are currently in the cinemas or have just been release on DVD. This is actually supported by the last couple of notices we got which were both for very topical items. I am sure that they do also have honey pots to catch down loading as well but my understanding is that the focus has moved to up loaders. The days where people were accused purely on the basis of their IP being in the list of peers indexes have long gone. The RH lost enough expensive court cases in the US that they now rely on active connection to their own honeypots to finger culprits. Passive methods have been demonstrated to be highly unreliable. I would be surprised if the notice that ISP receive from RH agents are unreliable and I would also be surprise if anyone who gets fingered can mount a credible defence even if they are innocent without strong support from their ISP. I've seen Matt P's posts and from a legal standpoint he is dead right, but about the only counter argument I can think of is along the lines "We were away that week and the ADSL router was turned off" something that the ISP can verify. One of the nasty features of this legislation is that the account holder is responsible for *all* traffic from their connection no matter who actually generated the traffic. At least we have three strikes which I am sure is to around the defence "the neighbour must have been piggy backing on my open wifi" I am sure the tribunal would assert that 'a reasonable person' would secure their wifi after the initial notice. ISP usage records are going to become very important and I would hope that when IPSs get a notice that they will at least verify that a credible data flow existed at the time in question. Months later when the matter gets to the tribunal is way too late. I don't recall seeing any requirement on the ISP other than identifying the user of the IP at the time. Some folk have raise questions about whether the RHs can meet the standards for the notices proposed by the legislation. My belief is that they can and have been doing this under the DMCA in the for years. My guess is that the requirements were lifted straight out of the DMCA. [DMCA == Digital Millennium Copyright Act (US) millennium give a hint of how old the act is]. Others have suggested challenging accuracy of times. You can bet that all RH agents can produce evidence that their time stamps are synched with reliable time sources. Any ISP that isn't able to do the same are arguably not fulfilling their obligations under the act. And if you ISPs think things are bad just spare a thought for the universities and other outfits that own their own address space. I know of three different legal interpretation of our status under the act: 1/ that the legislation does not apply at all 2/ that we are IPAPs 3/ that we are AHs and there are different expensive lawyers (a QC in our case) arguing for all three interpretations :( Different universities have come to different conclusions. I am pretty sure (given the preamble to the original bill) that 1/ is what parliament intended, but the legislation is unclear and hinges on what one considers "Core business" to mean. It is also unclear if an IP address holder must be either an IPAP or an AH with no possibility of being neither. The legislation is silent. As I said at the beginning I hope that the RHs will use this legislation responsibly and that this time next year we will wonder what all the fuss was about. I won't go as far as to say that this is what I expect but who knows I might be surprised. Russell

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Re: [nznog] Don't quite get this?
by Mark Harris 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

On 2/09/11 9:36 AM, Jay Daley wrote: > or the site supplying it does have the rights to is, in which case the downloader is not infringing because the RH has supplied it to them. No, I think not. Just because a fruit is in a position to be plucked, doesn't mean you have the right to pluck it, especially if you have to trespass to do so. Example: Libraries are full of books. Therefore, the books are available to be read. They are not available to be copied, however, even though the technology is right there in the library to do so. The RH can give themselves permission to upload their content to the net, but that does not imply that the AH has the right to download that content. Of course, IANAL, YMMV, yadda yadda yadda. ~mark

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Re: [nznog] An Experiment in Copyright
by Stu Fleming 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

>I have made a file up and I have 100% copyright to it (as I made it). No one >has any permission to view/download/copy/reproduce or anything the file >except me (and there is only one of me) >The file is at http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/copyright.txt . Do NOT download or >view it or anything the file. I'm just file sharing the location of it so I >don't forget the location but no one else is allowed to see it. >Now lets see how many automated systems download the file or humans try and >view MY file. Dear Craig, You got me. Good one. Please send me your billing details so that I can pay your settlement. Regards, Stu PS I hold the copyright to this message and I license it on the basis that on reading it, Craig Whitmore is liable to pay me $50. It is free of charge to all other readers.

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Re: [nznog] FW: An Experiment of CopyrightŠ .
by Jonas Bergler 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

Here's a link to a torrent a friend sent me. http://www.mediafire.com/?1xww480v8ykxjpv My friend also asked me what the the announce url of my public bittorrent tracker is. Jonas > From: Craig Whitmore <craig(a)voyager.co.nz> > Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 19:09:17 -0700 > To: Dave Green <dave.green(a)snowline.co.nz>, "nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz" < > nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] An Experiment of CopyrightŠ . > > 100+ copyright infringements so far… > > IP Addresses from mostly New Zealand IP Addresses and 2 government > departments ! . Some overseas addresses and some anonymous proxies > registered in the Seychelles > > I'll give a full report in a couple of days.. > > Thanks > > From: Dave Green <dave.green(a)snowline.co.nz> > Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 13:56:45 +1200 > To: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Subject: Re: [nznog] An Experiment of CopyrightŠ . > > As you (and several others) have admitted to breaching the copyright and > have also supplied your contact details, efforts to track the actual data > path aren't really necessary :) > > > On 2/09/2011 1:56 p.m., Eslick, Chris wrote: > > Viewed from work connection over a proxy that does not log the internal IP. > **** > > ** ** > > So will work get the notice?**** > > ** ** > > *From:* nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz [ > mailto:nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz <nznog-bounces(a)list.waikato.ac.nz>] > *On Behalf Of *Craig Whitmore > *Sent:* Friday, 2 September 2011 1:43 p.m. > *To:* nznog List > *Subject:* [nznog] An Experiment of CopyrightŠ .**** > > ** ** > > I have made a file up and I have 100% copyright to it (as I made it). No > one has any permission to view/download/copy/reproduce or anything the file > except me (and there is only one of me)**** > > ** ** > > The file is at http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/copyright.txt . Do NOT download or > view it or anything the file. I'm just file sharing the location of it so I > don't forget the location but no one else is allowed to see it.**** > > ** ** > > Now lets see how many automated systems download the file or humans try > and view MY file.**** > > ** ** > > Thanks**** > > Craig**** > > ** ** > > ------------------------------ > > WARNING: This email and any file transmitted with it are confidential and > may be subject to legal privilege. You must not copy or deliver it to any > other person or use the contents in any unauthorised manner without express > permission of the sender. If you are not the intended addressee of this > e-mail, please delete it and notify the sender as soon as possible. > > All outgoing emails and attached files are virus scanned, but we do not > represent that this email and any attached files are free from computer > viruses or other defects. Further, we do not accept any liability for any > damage caused by this email or attachments. > > This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by > *MailMarshal * > > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing listNZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nzhttp://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog >

5 4

NZRR Route Registry Update
by NZRR Database Notifications 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

Dear Colleague, This is to notify you that one or more objects in which you are designated for notification have been modified in the NZRR routing registry database. These objects are used to configure the various NZIX route servers (http://nzix.net/) so you can expect the relevant servers to be reloaded in the near future. The reloading of the servers is staggered over a period of time so that if you are peering with both servers at an exchange, you can maintain at least one BGP session at all times and consequently a full set of routes. Diagnostic output: ------------------------------------------------------------ --- PREVIOUS OBJECT: route-set: AS9560:RS-ROUTES:AS4826 descr: advertised to AS9560 by Vocus Communications - NO VERIFICATION NEEDED - AS4826 members: 49.224.0.0/14^14-29, 118.92.0.0/15^15-29, 27.252.0.0/16^16-29, 58.7.0.0/16^16-29, 58.28.0.0/16^16-29, 101.100.0.0/16^16-29, 118.90.0.0/16^16-29, 121.90.0.0/16^16-29, 124.148.0.0/16^16-29, 130.217.0.0/16^16-29, 131.203.0.0/16^16-29, 139.80.0.0/16^16-29, 157.128.0.0/16^16-29, 161.29.0.0/16^16-29, 161.65.0.0/16^16-29, 166.65.0.0/16^16-29, 182.154.0.0/16^16-29, 203.59.0.0/16^16-29, 220.253.0.0/16^16-29, 58.6.128.0/17^17-29, 113.203.0.0/17^17-29, 114.198.0.0/17^17-29, 124.149.0.0/17^17-29, 124.150.0.0/17^17-29, 124.168.0.0/17^17-29, 124.169.128.0/17^17-29, 124.170.0.0/17^17-29, 180.181.0.0/17^17-29, 203.109.128.0/17^17-29, 203.173.128.0/17^17-29, 210.48.0.0/17^17-29, 101.0.64.0/18^18-29, 116.90.0.0/18^18-29, 116.251.128.0/18^18-29, 118.67.0.0/18^18-29, 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Object abbreviated for readability] changed: rpsl-admin(a)nzix.net 20110902 source: NZRR ------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [nznog] Don't quite get this?
by Richard Naylor 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

At 11:54 a.m. 2/09/2011, Josh Farrelly wrote: >Because with the current data plans and pricing nobody in their right >mind is silly enough to torrent to their phone? Guess I'm silly. I run 5-6 USB sticks across both Telecom and Vodafone with either 4 or 8GB plans. We use one a day and then swap sticks. Generally we're uploading or live, but on a quiet month I do use them for downloading legit video from UCTV or UWTV or Berlin. Mobile broadband is nice and fast and better than ADSL, especially when you fly into a town for a few hours. We carry big antenna for them. (up to 27dbi) Otherwise you see us parked outside public places uploading via their wifi :-) In Hamilton, we park outside Shane Hobson's office. Would be handy if he'd put a 3 pin power plug outside and tell us where the nearest loo is. US broadcasters regularly use channel bonded mobile broadband for links. We just use single systems for now, but even NZ broadcasters use mobile bb. RNZ, TRN (NewstalkZB and Radiosport) and the IWI stations use it all the time. On TV they use it for News and generally cover any jitter issues with a "live via Internet" caption.

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New Zealand Network Operators' Group
by Donald Neal 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

The New Zealand Network Operators' Group The NZNOG mailing list exists to facilitate discussion among operators of networks in New Zealand on matters relevant to network operators as described in the list's Acceptable Use Policy. That policy appears later in this posting. The NZNOG Trust is registered as a charitable entity under the Charities Act. The trust exists to provide the legal framework needed to do jobs like operating the bank account which holds the money which allows our annual conferences to happen. The trust's annual returns can be read by going to http://www.register.charities.govt.nz/ and searching for registration number CC41726. Other than the four trustees, the NZNOG does not have a formal membership. The trustees are currently looking to replace some of their number. If you've been active in NZNOG's activities, you may want to think about whether that's for you. Conference NZNOG holds New Zealand's only annual technical networking conference. See http://2011.nznog.org/ to see what you missed. The next conference is expected to place in January of 2012. Other Meetings See http://thursdaynightcurry.com/ if you live in or near Auckland or Wellington. Operators' Contact List See http://www.nznog.org/?page_id=6 for operational contact details for most New Zealand ISP's. These are intended for use by other network operators, not by most customers. Internet Exchanges See http://www.nzix.net/ for details of exchanges in operation. About This Mailing List This list has just over 1100 addresses subscribed. You may only post to the list from a subscribed address. A number of people subscribe addresses which do not receive email purely to allow posting from them. You may choose to receive postings as they come in, or just to receive daily "digests". See the bottom of the page http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog/ to change the form in which you receive postings. The NZNOG mailing list is provided through a server at The University of Waikato, and is administered by employees of APN Online and The University of Waikato and a Geek For Hire. Neither of these organisations, nor any administrator, is responsible for its content. NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate. 4. Postings to multiple mailing lists are discouraged. 5. Postings that include foul language, character assassination, and lack of respect for other participants are unacceptable. 6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable. 7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are discouraged. 8. Postings to the list should be in ASCII or MIME encoded as text/plain. Attachments should not be sent to the list. To present a document, a suitable URL may be referred to. For documents of general interest, the use of proprietary file formats is discouraged. 9. Breaches of list etiquette should be dealt with privately with the offending list user, and should not result in complaints being sent to the list. 10. A person repeatedly breaching list etiquette shall receive warnings from the list administrator. A further breach after the second such warning within thirty days shall result in the offender being unsubscribed from the list. Other action may also be taken to block postings to the list by the offender. Any such unsubscription is to be immediately announced to the list. Mailing List Archives A full archive is available at http://list.waikato.ac.nz/pipermail/nznog/ . Any message sent to the list will be archived and made available on the web automatically. Changes are not made to the archive on request, though the administrators remain happy to assist the Office of the Privacy Commissioner should any complaint be laid with that office. One way to search the archive is to use google and prefix your search with site:list.waikato.ac.nz . Subscribing to the List See http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog to subscribe. Donald Neal NZNOG Mailing List Owner/Administrator/Muggins -- Donald Neal | I don't approve of gambling. I'll just | spend my time in the bar. High Performance Computing | - NZNOG 2010 attendee The University of Waikato |

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Re: [nznog] Don't quite get this?
by Jay Daley 01 Sep '11

01 Sep '11

On 2/09/2011, at 10:28 AM, Neil Gardner wrote: > On 2 September 2011 10:23, Jay Daley <jay(a)nzrs.net.nz> wrote: > >> I think that is entirely unfair. The objections that bring the strongest complaints are: >> >> - this is disproportionate - in the punishments available, the cost of the process, and the priority given to the list >> - it turns due process on its head >> - far too many innocent people will be affected because of the crap techniques used to identify infringement and the difficulty in challenging it >> >> Jay > > Please! We have credible media commentators and prominent figures > within the NZ community going on record saying they will continue to > illegally download stuff because the media companies won't change > their distribution models... Where exactly have they said that? What I've heard them say is that a key reason people download illegally in NZ is because of the poor availability of legal content, particularly when compared to other markets. And so long as that continues, that will stay as a reason to download illegally. That's a statement of fact, not a statement of intent. > Disproportionate? The fine is _UP TO_ $15k, and COULD (but I agree > won't be) be as low at a few hundred $ (including costs) $15k is grossly disproportionate. The RHs have consistently overstated the true cost of piracy and yet their figures still carry weight in this process. Even the US Gov't called their figures rubbish: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10423.pdf > Due process on head? As was shown a few pages back, there's an > assumption initially that the information presented by the rights > holders is correct (and the methods for this will have been reviewed > by an industry group within NZ), but if challenged in the tribunal, > the onus is on the rights holder to show their information is correct. Due process would be RHs going to tribunal and having to provide evidence to establish their case and that evidence being open to challenge. In this topsy turvy process they don't have to provide evidence, only an allegation, and that is presumed to be correct and then the accused has to challenge it. > As I have said, I think the law does suck - but the arguments most > people are using against it are a steaming pile of BS. So your reasons for thinking the law sucks are better than most people's? cheers Jay > > Cheers -N -- Jay Daley Chief Executive .nz Registry Services (New Zealand Domain Name Registry Limited) desk: +64 4 931 6977 mobile: +64 21 678840

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APNIC 32 Conference Report
by Srinivas Chendi 31 Aug '11

31 Aug '11

_______________________________________________________________________ APNIC 32 Conference Report _______________________________________________________________________ APNIC would like to thank everyone who contributed to APNIC 32. The APNIC 32 Conference Report is now available: http://meetings.apnic.net/32 View the NRO NC election result, the outcome of the Policy SIG, and much more. We also want to thank all our Sponsors for their kind generosity and for making the event the success that it is. Sponsors for APNIC 32 include: Gold Sponsors: NIXI, SK telecom Silver Sponsors: Google, KT Bronze Sponsors: TWNIC, CNNIC, JPNIC, Korea Tourism, Busan CVB, Samsung SDS, SK broadband, LG U+ Social Event Sponsor: PHCOLO Remote Hub: Mekongnet _______________________________________________________________________ APNIC Secretariat secretariat(a)apnic.net Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) Tel: +61 7 3858 3100 PO Box 3646 South Brisbane, QLD 4101 Australia Fax: +61 7 3858 3199 6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD http://www.apnic.net ________________________________________________________________________ * Sent by email to save paper. Print only if necessary.

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Cisco 1RU Switch airflow
by Simon Lyall 31 Aug '11

31 Aug '11

I'm having a little problem with exhaust ports of some of my Cisco switches going in the wrong direction so my servers in the same rack are ingesting the hot air from the switches. Corp standard for 1RU switches is 2960s but it would appear that 2360s are what I probably want since they are "Layer-2 top of rack" targeted and have reversible airflow. Just wondering if (a) I can get reversible airflow in 2960s or (b) what is the main difference between the models? Tried finding a comparison page but nothing so far. -- Simon Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.

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