- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by rob.edkins＠axon.co.nz 09 Feb '04

09 Feb '04

When I were 't lad, 'Broadband' was a technical term that meant simply a telecommunication medium that allowed a wide range of frequencies you could multiplex multiple channels down simultaneously. :-) Some other definitions: Newton's Telecom Dictionary: "...greater than a voice grade line of 3 KHz...some say [it should be at least] 20 KHz." Jupiter Communications: at least 256 Kbps. IBM Dictionary of Computing: A broadband channel is "6 MHz wide." Tannenbaum: "Broadband is used largely as a marketing rather than a technical term" [referring to DSL technology] > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Naylor [mailto:richard.naylor(a)citylink.co.nz] > Sent: Monday, 9 February 2004 22:34 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? > > > At 07:48 p.m. 9/02/2004 +1300, James White wrote: > > > Where does this idea that 256K is broadband come from? > > > >I thought it was something set by Telecom? > > who ever "set" it is crazy. Its anything above 2mbps. Before > "broadband", > you could get a 2mbps cct, so for the "new" thing it has to > be better. > Hence 2+ mbps, and in my thinking only really kicks in around 30mbps. > -- The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the use of the person or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is CONFIDENTIAL and may be exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If you read this message and are not the addressee you are notified that use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete the original message. You should scan this message and any attached files for viruses. Axon accepts no liability for any loss caused either directly or indirectly by a virus arising from the use of this message or any attached file.

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IPV6 and Multicast Progress after NZNOG
by Craig Whitmore 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

Well we all enjoyed the NZNOG conference, but what has been done with the 2 subjects that had a bit of talk about (Multicast and IPv6). I see no new IPv6 Peers @ APE or WIX and nothing new Multicast wise there either. Yes I know adding this type of stuff into an existing commercial network needs "management approval" and alike but are any of the techs around talking to Management/Have plans in the future/near future about enabling either of these into their networks. I've had www.mbone.net.nz set up for quite a while which gives some examples of set up and I even added some juniper stuff into it a few weeks ago. All I can see at the moment all I can see is IHUG's MSDP announcements and MBGP (but not PIM????). And now to think about the content.. Any comments? Suggestions? Craig Whitmore

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New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Seeby Woodhouse 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

Here's something that I think a few people may have overlooked... It seems to me that the new JetStream 'surf' products are just Telecom/Xtra's early implementation of the Bitstream product that the telecommunications commissioner recently ORDERED Telecom to wholesale to other providers. For those that missed it, Telecom has been told that they MUST provide a reasonably priced wholesale ADSL product (bitstream) to other ISP's, or they risk full unbundling of the local loop. (See www.comcom.govt.nz if you're in the dark about all this) So what has just happened, is that Telecom have worked out the pricing that OTHER ISPs are likely to come up with once they have the bitstream service to wholesale, and have simply launched to market first. We are in negotiations with Telecom regarding bitstream, and I am hopeful that we will be able to come up with an arrangement that will be beneficial to Orcon and the other 40+ ISP's that we wholesale ADSL services to. Once we have the technical issues with Telecom worked out over provisioning bistream I don't see why we won't be able to provide a flat-rate domestic ADSL service with differing downstream International data caps for a decent price per month. After all - once we wholesale bitstream it is totally up to us what we sell it to the customer at, and whether we provide flat rate domestic, data caps or a totally flat rate service altogether. One issue for small providers may be that it looks as though the investment in infrastructure required to wholesale bitstream may be prohibitive - however that's what we're here for - to help those guys out :-) Cheers Seeby Woodhouse Managing Director Orcon Internet Limited - www.orcon.net.nz Mob +64 (0) 21 366 666 / Wk +64 (9) 444 4414 ext 700

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Current APNIC policy discussions
by Nurani Nimpuno 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

Hi all, At the last NZNOG meeting, we delivered a full day training course on Internet resource management. A few people have asked me for the material, so I thought a quick mail to the list would be useful. The APNIC training course material can be found here: http://www.apnic.net/training/recent/ and the policy development presentation I gave on the Friday (30th) can be found here: http://www.apnic.net/community/presentations/other.html There was quite a lot of good discussion at the NZNOG meeting on the current policy proposals so I'd like to encourage you to have a look at the full proposals and express your opinion on them! There was good feedback from the NZNOG community, especially on the issues of size and criteria for a minimum IPv4 allocation and reclamation of unused historical allocations. The proposals will be discussed at the upcoming APNIC meeting, but if you cannot make it to the meeting, you are welcome to participate in the discussion on the APNIC mailing lists. (We webcast the meetings too, so you can follow them online.) The current proposals are listed here: http://www.apnic.net/docs/policy/proposals/ You can subscribe to one of the mailing lists here: http://www.apnic.net/community/lists/ Policy stuff might not feel that operational, but the policies do affect you if you're running a business on the Internet and the only way to change them is to voice your opinon. We haven't had a lot of feedback from New Zealand in the past, so it'd be good to get your perspective in some of the discussions! If you have any questions about the proposals, the meeting or the discussions, don't hesitate to shoot me a mail. Cheers, Nurani ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nurani Nimpuno <nurani(a)apnic.net> APNIC Training Tel:+61-7-38583100 http://www.apnic.net Fax:+61-7-38583199 ------------------------------------------------------------------ See you at the 17th APNIC Open Policy Meeting! Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, 23-27 February 2004 http://www.apnic.net/meetings/ <meetings(a)apnic.net> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Neil Gardner 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

Can anyone confirm if these plans: A) Will be available through other ISPs? (although the fact that these are labelled Telecom plans here, not Xtra - is confusing) B) Lump together the cheap-as-chips national and expensive as diamond International Data? I presume they do so all traffic counts towards the totals? -- Cheers - Neil Gardner Networking and Security Support Engineer Renaissance Brands (09) 968-3681 / (021) 746-345 -----Original Message----- From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] Sent: Monday, 9 February 2004 11:55 a.m. To: Tristram Cheer Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? Tristram Cheer wrote: > Anyone on the list be able to confirm this? > > "download of 256k upload of 128k > 1gig plan, 3 gig and a 10 gig plan! But instead of being charged for > extra usage they throttle you to dialup speeds after the 10gig" > > http://www.angst.co.nz/arr.jpg Not leaked -- annnounced today. Note that the pricing will be $10 less for customers who put all their calls through Telecom. $39.95/$49.95 for the 1GB plan with 5c/MB excess $49.95/$59.95 for the 3GB plan with 5c/MB excess $59.95/$69.95 for the 10GB plan with no excess charging, but throttling That's retail, with/without Telecom Calling. Resale is $10 less. -- Juha _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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Geeks Put the Unsavvy on Alert: Learn or Log Off
by Andy Linton 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

Follow up to discussions at BGP04 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/05/technology/05VIRU.html?ex=1077173129&ei=1…

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Gordon Smith 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

The splitting of national vs international traffic is an interesting point, and not very common internationally i.e. the people that write the applications that provide traffic calculations don't differentiate the two. Arguably, it is possible to do this with BGP communities; assuming, of course, that both Telecom and Telstra were willing to exchange national routing information at peering points with other providers. Otherwise the split will not be very accurate. >From the perspective of software management, I do know that boxes like the ERX pass traffic accounting information in the form of RADIUS interim accounting records, and as such have absolutely no awareness of traffic paths. In order to do a split, I'd guess that you'd have to come up with a way of reconciling NetFlow data with radius records, and I'm pretty sure that'd be pretty hard to make scalable Cheers, Gordon

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Neil Gardner 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

I'm a heavy internet user. I'd change plans in a second if this plan differentiated National/International Data. But as far as I can see it doesn't. That's why Telecom can afford to offer a 10GB plan, depending on the user, much or all of this 10Gb will be the 'almost free' national variety.[1] Telecom could remove the incentive for other broadband players to go for the ADSL market by just making a 256/256 with reasonably large (10GB) International plans and free National data, and then pricing it at $89. They would appear to have listened to the vocal minority wanting better broadband, yet have protected their market and lined their own pockets even more. Anyone that REALLY wants to setup alternatives with wireless would still have markets to go for (Higher speed, more geographically spread population etc) to target, so they couldn't complain that Telecom is being monopolistic. Even then, Telecom would wholesale the new plans and the ISPs would have something to offer. No, I know it doesn't fix the root cause of Telecom being able to decide on the plan, the cost and the caps - but if Telecom listened and upped the plans once the masses started grumbling - they could stay ahead of the problem and keep the marketspace clear and collect for every (virtually) home broadband connection in the country for the forseeable future... Cheers - N. [1] The national packets are packed in blain brown paper headers, the International ones get gold plated by hand before shipping. -- Cheers - Neil Gardner Networking and Security Support Engineer Renaissance Brands (09) 968-3681 / (021) 746-345 -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Manson [mailto:evil_bry(a)xtra.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 9 February 2004 2:37 p.m. To: 'Jeremy Brooking'; 'Juha Saarinen' Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? Another interesting point... there is *again* no national/international differentiation. We have this with 128/128 jetstart plans, one would think telecom will have put some consideration into this with their new plans.. Sure, 10 gig is a bit. But 10 gig national? What's that costing telecom? I guess it is a step in the right direction, but we are still stuck banging our heads on brick walls stuck in the Stone Age to some extent. Juha Saarinen wrote: > > Not leaked -- annnounced today. > > Note that the pricing will be $10 less for customers who put all their > calls through Telecom. > > $39.95/$49.95 for the 1GB plan with 5c/MB excess $49.95/$59.95 for the > 3GB plan with 5c/MB excess $59.95/$69.95 for the 10GB plan with no > excess charging, but throttling > > That's retail, with/without Telecom Calling. Resale is $10 less. > Surely this must be seen as anti-competitive behaviour by the commerce commision. Who in their right mind is going to use another tolls provider, to save themselves $5 a month on calls, when being Telecom dangle this carrot infront of them. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Donald Neal 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

This list does not exist for the discussion of general Internet-related issues, but specifically for technical and operational matters. This does not include discussion of whether people do or do not like anyone's retail pricing. This thread should either acquire some technical content or go away. Please before posting consider the list's Acceptable Use Policy, which begins: "The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate." - Donald Neal NZNOG List Administrator Donald Neal | "Fiasco - an unsuccessful Technical Specialist | wall painting." Operations Engineering | Integration & Services Divn. | - Sandi Toksvig Alcatel NZ Ltd | All opinions mine only. | > -----Original Message----- > From: nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > [mailto:nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On > Behalf Of Jonathan > Sent: Monday, 9 February 2004 14:35 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? > > > > > Where does this idea of of the customer deserving > flatrate broadband > > > for peanuts come from? > > I beleive this idea comes from other countries where more than one > telecommunications provider offers DSL/Cable systems, and > there is actual > competition. > > This is a great improvement from Telecom, however does not > compare to other > countries internet pricing. Being fair this could be put down > to the lower > quanitity of usable lines in NZ compared to the US, I don't > think we'll be > able to get the same prices as the US ever purely due to > population density > restrictions, however I do think the price could be > dramaticly lower and > Telecom still profit. > > Dont mean to be a complainer, I do like these new Telecom DSL > offers, they > are much better. JetStart actually qualifying as 'broadband' > with the 256K > download spec. Speed limiting in my eyes is a much preffered > alternative to > the huge cash bill at the end of the month. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juha Saarinen" <juha(a)saarinen.org> > To: "Finnigan, Jamie (NZ - Wellington)" <jfinnigan(a)deloitte.co.nz> > Cc: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? > > > > Finnigan, Jamie (NZ - Wellington) wrote: > > > > > > > Conversely, where does the idea that Telecom deserves exemption from > > competition come from? Corporate charity? > > > > > > > CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains > information that > > > is both confidential and possibly legally privileged. No > reader may > > > make any use of its content unless that use is approved > by Deloitte > > > separately in writing. Any opinion, advice or information > contained > > > in this e-mail and any attachment(s) is to be treated as > interim and > > > provisional only and for the strictly limited purpose of the > > > recipient as communicated to us. Neither the recipient > nor any other > > > person should act upon it without our separate written > authorisation > > > of reliance. > > > > > > Deloitte is a member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. Deloitte > > > Touche Tohmatsu is a Swiss Verein (association), and, as such, > > > neither Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu nor any of its member > firms has any > > > liability for each other's acts or omissions. Each of the member > > > firms is a separate and independent legal entity > operating under the > > > names "Deloitte," "Deloitte & Touche," "Deloitte Touche > Tohmatsu," or > > > other related names. Services are provided by the member firms and > > > not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein. > > > > > > If you have received this message in error please notify us > > > immediately and destroy this message. Thank you. > > > > > > Deloitte Internet: www.deloitte.co.nz > > > > http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/ > > > > -- > > Juha > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Simon Oldham 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

<snip> And do you think they will have it set up for allocation of Static IP's?? Current Jetstart/5GB plan and static IP assignment are 'incompatible', supposedly, as this are not properly routable (must be nat'd or somit') This is a marked improvement in contrast to pricing plans they've provided in the past, and they appear to have listened to what their customers have been asking for. Good on ya, Telecom. But I guess there will always be complainers.. :) Jamie [1] feel free to replace with 'abused', 'used as it should be', 'enjoyed', and any other term you wish according to your own viewpoint. -- CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains information that is both confidential and possibly legally privileged. No reader may make any use of its content unless that use is approved by Deloitte separately in writing. Any opinion, advice or information contained in this e-mail and any attachment(s) is to be treated as interim and provisional only and for the strictly limited purpose of the recipient as communicated to us. Neither the recipient nor any other person should act upon it without our separate written authorisation of reliance. Deloitte is a member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu is a Swiss Verein (association), and, as such, neither Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu nor any of its member firms has any liability for each other's acts or omissions. Each of the member firms is a separate and independent legal entity operating under the names "Deloitte," "Deloitte & Touche," "Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu," or other related names. Services are provided by the member firms and not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein. If you have received this message in error please notify us immediately and destroy this message. Thank you. Deloitte Internet: www.deloitte.co.nz _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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