- NZNOG - lists.nznog.org

Geeks Put the Unsavvy on Alert: Learn or Log Off
by Andy Linton 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

Follow up to discussions at BGP04 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/05/technology/05VIRU.html?ex=1077173129&ei=1…

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Gordon Smith 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

The splitting of national vs international traffic is an interesting point, and not very common internationally i.e. the people that write the applications that provide traffic calculations don't differentiate the two. Arguably, it is possible to do this with BGP communities; assuming, of course, that both Telecom and Telstra were willing to exchange national routing information at peering points with other providers. Otherwise the split will not be very accurate. >From the perspective of software management, I do know that boxes like the ERX pass traffic accounting information in the form of RADIUS interim accounting records, and as such have absolutely no awareness of traffic paths. In order to do a split, I'd guess that you'd have to come up with a way of reconciling NetFlow data with radius records, and I'm pretty sure that'd be pretty hard to make scalable Cheers, Gordon

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Neil Gardner 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

I'm a heavy internet user. I'd change plans in a second if this plan differentiated National/International Data. But as far as I can see it doesn't. That's why Telecom can afford to offer a 10GB plan, depending on the user, much or all of this 10Gb will be the 'almost free' national variety.[1] Telecom could remove the incentive for other broadband players to go for the ADSL market by just making a 256/256 with reasonably large (10GB) International plans and free National data, and then pricing it at $89. They would appear to have listened to the vocal minority wanting better broadband, yet have protected their market and lined their own pockets even more. Anyone that REALLY wants to setup alternatives with wireless would still have markets to go for (Higher speed, more geographically spread population etc) to target, so they couldn't complain that Telecom is being monopolistic. Even then, Telecom would wholesale the new plans and the ISPs would have something to offer. No, I know it doesn't fix the root cause of Telecom being able to decide on the plan, the cost and the caps - but if Telecom listened and upped the plans once the masses started grumbling - they could stay ahead of the problem and keep the marketspace clear and collect for every (virtually) home broadband connection in the country for the forseeable future... Cheers - N. [1] The national packets are packed in blain brown paper headers, the International ones get gold plated by hand before shipping. -- Cheers - Neil Gardner Networking and Security Support Engineer Renaissance Brands (09) 968-3681 / (021) 746-345 -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Manson [mailto:evil_bry(a)xtra.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 9 February 2004 2:37 p.m. To: 'Jeremy Brooking'; 'Juha Saarinen' Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? Another interesting point... there is *again* no national/international differentiation. We have this with 128/128 jetstart plans, one would think telecom will have put some consideration into this with their new plans.. Sure, 10 gig is a bit. But 10 gig national? What's that costing telecom? I guess it is a step in the right direction, but we are still stuck banging our heads on brick walls stuck in the Stone Age to some extent. Juha Saarinen wrote: > > Not leaked -- annnounced today. > > Note that the pricing will be $10 less for customers who put all their > calls through Telecom. > > $39.95/$49.95 for the 1GB plan with 5c/MB excess $49.95/$59.95 for the > 3GB plan with 5c/MB excess $59.95/$69.95 for the 10GB plan with no > excess charging, but throttling > > That's retail, with/without Telecom Calling. Resale is $10 less. > Surely this must be seen as anti-competitive behaviour by the commerce commision. Who in their right mind is going to use another tolls provider, to save themselves $5 a month on calls, when being Telecom dangle this carrot infront of them. _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Donald Neal 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

This list does not exist for the discussion of general Internet-related issues, but specifically for technical and operational matters. This does not include discussion of whether people do or do not like anyone's retail pricing. This thread should either acquire some technical content or go away. Please before posting consider the list's Acceptable Use Policy, which begins: "The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the following guidelines. 1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues. 2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is appropriate. 3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate." - Donald Neal NZNOG List Administrator Donald Neal | "Fiasco - an unsuccessful Technical Specialist | wall painting." Operations Engineering | Integration & Services Divn. | - Sandi Toksvig Alcatel NZ Ltd | All opinions mine only. | > -----Original Message----- > From: nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > [mailto:nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On > Behalf Of Jonathan > Sent: Monday, 9 February 2004 14:35 > To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: Re: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? > > > > > Where does this idea of of the customer deserving > flatrate broadband > > > for peanuts come from? > > I beleive this idea comes from other countries where more than one > telecommunications provider offers DSL/Cable systems, and > there is actual > competition. > > This is a great improvement from Telecom, however does not > compare to other > countries internet pricing. Being fair this could be put down > to the lower > quanitity of usable lines in NZ compared to the US, I don't > think we'll be > able to get the same prices as the US ever purely due to > population density > restrictions, however I do think the price could be > dramaticly lower and > Telecom still profit. > > Dont mean to be a complainer, I do like these new Telecom DSL > offers, they > are much better. JetStart actually qualifying as 'broadband' > with the 256K > download spec. Speed limiting in my eyes is a much preffered > alternative to > the huge cash bill at the end of the month. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juha Saarinen" <juha(a)saarinen.org> > To: "Finnigan, Jamie (NZ - Wellington)" <jfinnigan(a)deloitte.co.nz> > Cc: <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked? > > > > Finnigan, Jamie (NZ - Wellington) wrote: > > > > > > > Conversely, where does the idea that Telecom deserves exemption from > > competition come from? Corporate charity? > > > > > > > CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains > information that > > > is both confidential and possibly legally privileged. No > reader may > > > make any use of its content unless that use is approved > by Deloitte > > > separately in writing. Any opinion, advice or information > contained > > > in this e-mail and any attachment(s) is to be treated as > interim and > > > provisional only and for the strictly limited purpose of the > > > recipient as communicated to us. Neither the recipient > nor any other > > > person should act upon it without our separate written > authorisation > > > of reliance. > > > > > > Deloitte is a member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. Deloitte > > > Touche Tohmatsu is a Swiss Verein (association), and, as such, > > > neither Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu nor any of its member > firms has any > > > liability for each other's acts or omissions. Each of the member > > > firms is a separate and independent legal entity > operating under the > > > names "Deloitte," "Deloitte & Touche," "Deloitte Touche > Tohmatsu," or > > > other related names. Services are provided by the member firms and > > > not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein. > > > > > > If you have received this message in error please notify us > > > immediately and destroy this message. Thank you. > > > > > > Deloitte Internet: www.deloitte.co.nz > > > > http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/ > > > > -- > > Juha > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > _______________________________________________ > NZNOG mailing list > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: [nznog] New Telecom Jetstream Plans Leaked?
by Simon Oldham 08 Feb '04

08 Feb '04

<snip> And do you think they will have it set up for allocation of Static IP's?? Current Jetstart/5GB plan and static IP assignment are 'incompatible', supposedly, as this are not properly routable (must be nat'd or somit') This is a marked improvement in contrast to pricing plans they've provided in the past, and they appear to have listened to what their customers have been asking for. Good on ya, Telecom. But I guess there will always be complainers.. :) Jamie [1] feel free to replace with 'abused', 'used as it should be', 'enjoyed', and any other term you wish according to your own viewpoint. -- CAUTION: This e-mail and any attachment(s) contains information that is both confidential and possibly legally privileged. No reader may make any use of its content unless that use is approved by Deloitte separately in writing. Any opinion, advice or information contained in this e-mail and any attachment(s) is to be treated as interim and provisional only and for the strictly limited purpose of the recipient as communicated to us. Neither the recipient nor any other person should act upon it without our separate written authorisation of reliance. Deloitte is a member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu is a Swiss Verein (association), and, as such, neither Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu nor any of its member firms has any liability for each other's acts or omissions. Each of the member firms is a separate and independent legal entity operating under the names "Deloitte," "Deloitte & Touche," "Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu," or other related names. Services are provided by the member firms and not by the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Verein. If you have received this message in error please notify us immediately and destroy this message. Thank you. Deloitte Internet: www.deloitte.co.nz _______________________________________________ NZNOG mailing list NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog

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If anyone is running their IPv6 machines on OpenBSD....
by Simon Oldham 05 Feb '04

05 Feb '04

Ladies and Gents, This was pushed onto the Slashdot stack not long ago, might bear some investigation if your platform of choice for your IPv6 is Open BSD 3.4 http://www.guninski.com/obsdmtu.html If the list has already seen this, please excuse the disturbing of your New Zealand Day (opps, Waitangi)

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Solution to spam problem
by Andy Linton 05 Feb '04

05 Feb '04

Just when you thought the Internet sucked beyond redemption your faith in the net gods gets restored. Now let's find an answer for world hunger and peace. http://www.thespeciousreport.com/03031216nospam.html Has anybody idea how they make this work? (:-)

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NOG Conference stuff
by Peter Macaulay 03 Feb '04

03 Feb '04

Great Event. Well run, good attendance. Attaboys all round. Sorry to miss the curry though. InternetNZ has enjoyed supporting the NOG, and has agreed to consider of more initiatives such as the IPV6 lab. Lotto results: Confirming that Craig Whitmore won the Linksys WRT54G. This was shipped to him yesterday. After a shipping saga, the Mulitcast books arrived here in Wellington today via Auckland, Hamilton, Auckland, Wellington. Michael Sutton is preparing the list, and Janet will ship these in the next day or so. We have yet to decide whether to order more than the original 25 so no one misses out. Commercial break --- if you are not a member of InternetNZ sign up now! https://secure.internetnz.net.nz/membership/individmem.html -- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113

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Dean Moreton/Christchurch/Foodstuffs is out of the office.
by Dean Moreton 03 Feb '04

03 Feb '04

I will be out of the office starting 02/02/2004 and will not return until 09/02/2004. I will respond to your message when I return. If you have any urgent queries please contact another member of the PC Support team. ##################################################################################### This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content by both MailMarshal and Norton's Antivirus. Attention: The information contained in this message and or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. Please note that the views and opinions expressed in this message may be those of the individual and not necessarily those of Foodstuffs (South Island) Ltd #####################################################################################

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Re: [nznog] The Internet for n00bs
by Ewen McNeill 02 Feb '04

02 Feb '04

In message <401C49BA.5040507(a)saarinen.org>, Juha Saarinen writes: >There's something wrong about neutering the 'Net for newbies instead of >going after those who spoil it for them. FWIW, Dean's talk wasn't solely about people spoiling the net for newbies (although there's a lot of that too), but also that they're inadvertantly doing dumb things because it's not obvious that it's dumb and it's not obvious that there's a better way to do it. (For instance consider a newbie mailing out a 10MB attachement to the whole company when they could have just sent a link.) To that end I think that "seamless integration" of the local network (and local machine) and the Internet is counterproductive -- there really are differences and sometimes you've still got to be aware of them. (Not everyone has a gigabit link to their house yet.) >Given how spammers, phishers, crackers, VXers et al have so far managed >to work around every countermeasure devised against them, I have reason >to believe even NewbieNet would only be a temporary fix. Indeed. That was basically my point in one of the talks, that whatever restrictions you put in place would be "routed around" by those with an incentive to do so. Okay you're down to "mere applications", but applications -- especially those used by newbies -- are notoriously insecure. (Some of them even have extra, designed in, insecurity.) Jamie (Baddeley)'s suggestion of thin client is perhaps one of the few ways you might get enough control over the end appliance to control things; another is perhaps Knoppix-style bootable-readonly-device (or perhaps something PS/2, Xbox, etc like). My point was that you can get 75% of the immediate benefit of a "newbie applicance network" right now simply by firewalling customer connections at the edge -- and that if you do, please provide an opt-out mechanism. (I'd really prefer that it wasn't necessary to buy, say, a E1 link (wholesale connectivity) in order to get reasonably unfiltered access. And tunnelling everywhere sucks.) That said, short of a rigorous punishment technique,[0] rigorously applied, I don't think we're going to get all of those that spoil the 'net. Ewen [0] Death. Or perhaps transportation to the colonies. I hear Mars isn't too crowded this time of year.

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