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Re: [nznog] Peering Issue - from a business point of view
by Tikiri Wicks 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

p.s. I have NO affiliation with Maxnet I just use an email address from them. > What would that achieve? It won't solve the problem that John Russell > brought up. There is NO need to set up any other peering exchanges. > > You are confusing the issue. Get someone at the maxnet > nog to explain it to you I'm not trying to look at it from a technical point. What I mean is purely from a business point of view. In that case what about if all the small ISP's as a group peer with one layer 3 switch at the APE and another one at the WIX. This way Telstra would have to peer with everyone or not peer with anyone. New Zealand Internet consumers have great interest in other Internet related services and web sites in New Zealand. For example the earlier reference to nzdating.co.nz A large portion of these New Zealand based ineternet services and websites are physically hosted by ISP's other than Telstra and Telecom. Not to mention the end consumers themselves. If all the non Telco ISP's were to be lumped into one pile that would be a lot of such internet services and web sites. If all of these were as a group with rules that state peer with the all or do not peer at all. Essentially a gigabit Layer 3 switch at the NEW exchange. What this means is that parties would not peer with individual small ISP's rather they would peer with the entire group. In this scenario what would happen ? A Telstra consumer tries to access www.nzdating.co.nz what happens ? it is not accessible for them. The next day (or same day) he/she whines to his/her friends about nzdating not beign there. But his/her friend is on a dialup to ICONZ / Slingshot / _____ and they could access the site with no hassles. Instant conclusion is something is wrong with Telstra. The Telstra consumer would most probably switch to his friends connection. The key is to achieve critical mass. You guys can only achieve this critical mass as a group. Not as individual companies as you are too small alone to make any difference. Only as a group. Cheers Tikiri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lin Nah" <lin(a)darkmere.gen.nz> To: "Tikiri Wicks" <tcwicks(a)maxnet.co.nz> Cc: "Tony Wicks" <nzog(a)road.gen.nz> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution > HI Tikiri > > On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Tikiri Wicks wrote: > > I realize that the APE and the WIX already exist but what I'm talking about > > is setting up a second peering point with different game rules. Namely Give > > as much as you take > What would that achieve? It won't solve the problem that John Russell > brought up. There is NO need to set up any other peering exchanges. > > You are confusing the issue. Get someone at the maxnet > nog to explain it to you > > > What you guys don't seem to understand is that if all the smaller ISP's > > Maxnet, IHUG, Slingshot, etc.... were all combined into one (big lump) that > > is probably way more end consumers than what Telstra has. And probably > > enough to get Telecom thinking as well > > regards > lin > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony Wicks" <nzog(a)road.gen.nz> > > To: "'Tikiri Wicks'" <tcwicks(a)maxnet.co.nz> > > Cc: "'nznog'" <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 11:14 AM > > Subject: RE: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution > > > > > > I hate to mention the obvious Tikiri, but that already exsists, they are > > called APE and WIX. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tikiri Wicks [mailto:tcwicks(a)maxnet.co.nz] > > Sent: Wednesday, 26 November 2003 11:13 a.m. > > To: Andy Linton; nznog > > Subject: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution > > > > Just a thought here > > > > Since most ISP's in NZ seem to be in agreement over this. What if > > instead of just blowing off steam: > > > > Everyone joins hands and sets up two (or more) peering exchanges. One in > > Auckland and one in Wellington. Then everyone simply drops all peering with > > Telstra (and / or Telecom if and where relevant) and interconnect through > > the two (or more) exchange points. The idea is that no one would pay for > > anything except for the cost of connectiong yourselves to the exchange > > points. Whether this be via tangent / united network / citylink / some big > > SDH radio link / microwave / a whole bunch of people running to the > > exchanges with buckets fileld with packets :) > > > > Peering would be voluntary for anyone and on the condition that each > > provides the same amount of bandwidth under the same conditions from their > > network to the exchange as they do from teh exchange to their network. > > > > That should keep players like Telecom and Telstra from trying to > > manipulate the market. > > > > If Telstra want to peer they would be forced to do so at the same > > conditions that apply to everyone else > > > > Also the costs of interconnectivity between the exchange points could be > > borne by the members based on some simple equation such as for example a > > ratio based on the amount of bandwidth with which they connect to the > > exchanges. Fill in the blanks here ________ > > > > Finally I would think that this would be a great opportunity for > > operators like tangent who have fibre running between the two (or more) > > hypothetical exchanges. > > > > Cheers > > > > Tikiri > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Andy Linton" <asjl(a)citylink.co.nz> > > To: "nznog" <nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:53 AM > > Subject: [nznog] Peering at the APE and WIX - was Re: Irked with > > TelstraClear > > > > > > > I posted some notes yesterday about peering with the APE and WIX route > > > servers and gave a link for application forms which wasn't as useful as > > > it might have been. For reference the forms are at: > > > > > > http://www.citylink.co.nz/cgi-bin/wixape.pl?tmpl=ape.tmpl > > > http://www.citylink.co.nz/cgi-bin/wixape.pl?tmpl=wix.tmpl > > > > > > Joe Abley posted some ideas on peering - one obvious one that he hasn't > > > gone the whole distance with is that if many of the small/medium players > > > work together they will be in a better position to negotiate peering > > > with the two large telcos. > > > > > > Consider the stories here: > > > > > > http://www.tomsdomain.com/aesop/id17.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NZNOG mailing list > > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NZNOG mailing list > > NZNOG(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > > http://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog > >

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RE: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution
by Donald Neal 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > [mailto:nznog-bounces+Donald.Neal=telecom.co.nz(a)list.waikato.ac.nz]On > Behalf Of Tikiri Wicks > Sent: Wednesday, 26 November 2003 11:13 > To: Andy Linton; nznog > Subject: [nznog] Peering Issue - Perhaps a solution > > > Just a thought here > > Since most ISP's in NZ seem to be in agreement over this. What if > instead of just blowing off steam: > > Everyone joins hands and sets up two (or more) peering > exchanges. One in > Auckland and one in Wellington. Then everyone simply drops > all peering with > Telstra (and / or Telecom if and where relevant) and > interconnect through > the two (or more) exchange points. As the monthly posting to this list says, >Internet Exchanges >See http://www.ape.net.nz/ for details of the Auckland Peering >Exchange and those connected there, http://www.wix.net.nz/ for the >Wellington Internet Exchange. Donald Neal | "They won't wobble. They won't! Technical Specialist | I shall lean against them Operations Engineering | myself, and I'm 6ft 6in. I will Integration & Services Divn. | personally eliminate wobble." Alcatel NZ Ltd | All opinions mine only. | - Russell T. Davies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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(no subject)
by Ben Martel 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

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RE: [nznog] Irked with TelstraClear
by J S Russell 25 Nov '03

25 Nov '03

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, Neil Gardner wrote: > JSR, Do you have any numbers or names of people that this sort of > (justified, and for gosh sake, please be polite when doing it) enquiry > would be best directed towards? Personally, were I a TelstraClear customer, I would be inclined to treat it as a fault, yes. And I would guess that fault reports should be sent though normal account management channels. JSR -- John S Russell | Big Geek | Doing geek stuff.

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Re: [nznog] Irked with TelstraClear
by Simon Lyall 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, J S Russell wrote: > Nope - as I outlined earlier, we treated it as damage and routed around > it. Technology triumphs over stupidity! Huzzah! Hmm, still some customers of TesltraClear [1] might be seeing less than optimal connectivity to Iconz hosted sites. Why not approach them and suggest that they get direct connectivity to APE,WIX or wherever? If they are paying $25 per 64Kbits/sec per month then they don't need much bandwidth to start saving money. As a bonus, next time their bandwidth negotiations come around they'll be able to pick from any ISP that's APE connected for their bandwidth. Here are a few possibles that are fairly big but appear (from a quick glance) to be only domestically routed via TesltraClear currently: aut.ac.nz auckland.ac.nz vuw.ac.nz waikato.ac.nz iserve.co.nz actrix.co.nz scarfies.net wave.co.nz I would guess a few admins from there are already on this list, some might already be getting complaints about domestic connectivity. I'd be interested in their take on the situation. [1] My Spell checker keeps trying to substitute "Testicular" for "TelstraClear" , then again it also tried to do "thug" for "ihug" :) -- Simon J. Lyall | Very Busy | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz/ "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life" - Stilgar | eMT.

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[Fwd: RE: [nznog] Changes to Telecom ADSL Network]
by kyle carter 24 Nov '03

24 Nov '03

I personally am happy with this topic being discussed on list.. however being an anonymous looking sender is a bit off putting. Many of the topic on this list i dont have a problem with, but i do like to know is going on with regards to the internet in NZ. This is a topic i have been asked about by many people i know who arent gamers but have been experiencing many issues with the latency of their connections when nearing max bandwidth usage. I did not experience any problems with the previous traffic shaping with the dropping of packets, however i have experienced some very weird issues with the new packet shaping when nearing the bandwidth limits of my jetstart connection. On Mon, 2003-11-24 at 07:29, Craig Spiers wrote: > Why was this posted to NZNOG? > > If you have gripes with telecom, take it up with telecom? > > I personally don't have a problem with the changes telecom have made.. And I > believe it hasn't been done on purpose, but a side effect from the changing > of equipment vendors.. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anonymous User [mailto:ominona(a)emailaccount.com] > Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2003 6:26 p.m. > To: adsl(a)lists.unixathome.org; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: [nznog] Changes to Telecom ADSL Network > > An interesting topic for discussion: > > Telecom is installing new equipment in its ADSL network, which handles > traffic congestion in a slightly different way than previously. > Overview > Telecom is installing new equipment in its network, which handles traffic > congestion in a slightly different way than previously.

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Changes to Telecom ADSL Network
by Anonymous User 22 Nov '03

22 Nov '03

An interesting topic for discussion: Telecom is installing new equipment in its ADSL network, which handles traffic congestion in a slightly different way than previously. Overview Telecom is installing new equipment in its network, which handles traffic congestion in a slightly different way than previously. When a traffic burst exceeds the rated capacity of that connection, any overflow data is now queued temporarily and sent as soon as the congestion is cleared - normally within milliseconds. This change should enhance the experience for most Internet users, however some gaming customers may have increased sensitivity to other applications running in the background. To achieve the best online game playing experience, Telecom is working to ensure that the connections are optimised and queuing is minimised. Users wanting the best gaming experience should avoid running other applications or PCs on the same connection or upgrade their connection to a higher speed to ensure queues are minimised. Frequently Asked Questions: Q. Why can multiple users on one connection now not connect when playing games? A. Telecom is installing new equipment in the network, which handles traffic congestion in a slightly different way than previously. When a traffic burst exceeds the rated capacity of that connection, any overflow data is now queued temporarily and sent as soon as the congestion is cleared - normally within milliseconds. Q. Why has Telecom made this change? A. This change means that packets of data, which previously may have been dropped, will now reach their destination. This change should enhance the experience for most Internet users, however some gaming customers may have increased sensitivity to other applications running in the background. Q. This is obviously having a negative effect on my games experience - why don't you change it back? A. For the majority of customers, the new queue shaping provides them with a better Internet experience. Telecom is working to ensure that the connections are optimised and queuing is minimised. Users wanting the best gaming experience should avoid running other applications or PCs on the same connection or upgrade their existing connection to a higher speed to ensure queues are minimised. Q. Why didn't you notify customers of this change? A. Telecom regularly makes changes to its Network and indeed, announced earlier this year that it was overhauling its JetStream portfolio. With so many changes being made in various parts of the Network, it is impractical to notify all customers whenever a change is made. Q. Isn't this just a ploy to get us on to your 256k plans where we have to pay for all traffic? A. Customers are free to choose the most appropriate plan for their needs. The Xtra JetStream 256k and Full speed plans obviously offer customers a bigger pipe, so the chances of packets getting dropped or queued are less. ~ John Doe _____________________________________________________________ Free, simple, fast, memorable email Become you(a)EmailAccount.com at http://www.emailaccount.com/

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Telehousing
by Craig Spiers 22 Nov '03

22 Nov '03

Anyone know of any telehousing facilitys in auckland CBD? Must be on the citylink or tangent / united networks fiber networks.. Cheers!

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2.4GHz operators - Lincoln/Henderson area
by Michael Hallager 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

Hi, Could any operators of 2.4GHz outdoor networks in the Lincoln/Henderson area please contact me offlist for mutual co-operation in channel usage. Michael Hallager Managing Director Networkstuff Limited URL: http://www.networkstuff.co.nz Networkstuff, NZ's leading supplier of high quality used networking equipment. E-Mail: michael @ networkstuff.co.nz Member of the NZ Open Source Society. Member of the Auckland VHF Group. Amateur radio callsign: ZL1VMH.

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ENUM Seminar
by Peter Macaulay 19 Nov '03

19 Nov '03

Just a reminder for those of you who would like to attend, you can still enrol. The $50 is primarily for food. The Number Administration Deed (NAD) Management Committee and Internet NZ are holding a joint seminar on ENUM on Monday 24 November 2003 from 9.00 am - 5.00 pm. The venue is the Level 2 West Lounge at Westpactrust Stadium in Wellington. Programme Tony Holmes of BT is attending as guest speaker. He intends to discuss the following topics: 1. Introduction to ENUM. 2. ENUM Specifications, Rules and Recommendations. 3. An overview of what's happening across the globe. 4. Experience, issues and problems from the UK ENUM trial. 5. The focus for New Zealand - discussion on 'what needs to happen next'. Representatives from the Ministry of Economic Development will also attend to present their views on ENUM. Cost $50.00 per person, which includes the full day ENUM seminar plus morning tea, lunch and afternoon tea. Registration and Contacts Jennifer Neeley (M-co) Phone: 04 498 0026 Fax: 04 473 6950 Email: jennifer.neeley(a)m-co.co.nz -- Peter Macaulay Executive Director InternetNZ Direct +64 4 495 2113

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