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Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Further Feedback
by Donald Neal 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

Dean, -- Donald Neal Special Operations Network Delivery Telecom New Zealand Ltd >>> "Dean Pemberton" <dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz> 01/11/02 11:38 >>> [...] >It would be great to see overseas people there, but which would you >rather see. >a) Room full of only the people who can fly to anywhere in the country >and pay $400, all drooling over the latest International Guru? >or >b) Room full of anyone who wants to attend, all on an equal footing, >all learning from what each other has to offer. >Which one of these fits the culture of this list better? Given the very high proportion of postings by a very low proportion fo subscribers, and the many subscribers who hardly ever post at all, I'm not sure you'd like the answer to your question. For myself, I'm asking what people would actually exert themselves enough to attend. If hundreds of people just want to lurk on this list and wouldn't attend any event that was organised, that's fine. But that would make them not the people who should be deciding what form such an event should take. - Donald Neal ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you." ============================================================================== - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Further Feedback
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

I do like the Waikato Uni as the venue. That is once we have sorted out why we want to do this and a big venue is appropriate. We have international "guru's" coming down all the time. I'll keep an eye on the talent and drop a name if their field looks interesting to the list. Regards Kefyn JUDSON (FROM HAMILTON) Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Tony McGregor [mailto:tonym(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz] Sent: Friday, 11 January 2002 12:04 PM To: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Further Feedback On Fri, 11 Jan 2002, Dean Pemberton wrote: >It would be great to see overseas people there, but which would you >rather see. > > a) Room full of only the people who can fly to anywhere in the country > and pay $400, all drooling over the latest International Guru? > or > b) Room full of anyone who wants to attend, all on an equal footing, > all learning from what each other has to offer. Something in the middle. When we've done things like this at the university in the past the cost has been between $100 and $200. It could be less if vendors sponsor food/drinks bandwidth etc. If we hosted the event we would sponsor someone from NLANR or CAIDA to come (not quite drooling material, but generally worth listening too.) Accommodation and social extra (say $75 and $50). Tony - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

Dean I'd definitely be a starter for one of those tShirts. Could be that classical evolutionary picture from gorilla to Neanderthal to 21 century human! :-) Enough of that! What is the point of us getting together? I'm not knocking it here, but if we can identify our reasons for getting together we should be able to identify which setup would work for us. Is it for networking? For chewing over a specific issue? For hands on workshopping something (perhaps all the Spam killing ideas of late :-)?) For discussing how to encourage, for instance multicast, growth in the NZ market? Have a clear purpose up front would help ensure that we are heading in the right direction and help prevent it degenerating into a talkfest. We sort out why we want this and we may find that a smaller quarterly or biannual gathering is really more appropriate. Won't know until we know why we want do this. What y'all think? Coming from a vendor this has been valued at only 3 cents (plus GST). Regards Kefyn JUDSON Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Dean Pemberton [mailto:dean(a)flatnet.gen.nz] Sent: Friday, 11 January 2002 11:00 AM To: Roger De Salis Cc: nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:22:20AM +1300, Roger De Salis wrote: > > 1/ Organisation is pretty much a 12 month cycle (not to say > you can't do a smaller one in less time.) > Damn - my attention span has been clocked at under 10.7 seconds. Seriously though. I don't doubt for a minute that this is a long term job, and as such needs the right sort of person to organise it. > 2/ Guest overseas/celebrity speakers (from 1-3) usually > want business-class airfare plus free accomodation. > Greedy bastards. S/t I think this could be relaxed. None of the companies they work for will be flying them business class at the moment so why should we. > 3/ Organisors, who usually work for nothing, like have their > accomodation paid. (But this need not be the case) > One Maui Camper van comming up S/t If you like the idea enough to volenteer to organise it, then you were probably going to come anyway. So then you would have been paying for your accomodation anyway. So no one should mind paying. QED > > I believe most companies would stump up for this. > There are severe limitations in the number of establishments > that can deal with 50-150 people, and they typically want > 12 month notice of bookings. Yep - this I think will be an issue. We might want to look into this as a phase 1. it might effect some of the scaling decisions that Donald is talking about (single vs multiday, independant vs schlepping off uniforum) > > I'm sure Cisco, being the gorilla of the Internet industry > would be keen to participate, by providing an overseas > speaker, and other companies would no doubt contribute in > like fashion. The principle reason for finding a sponsor > is to stump up the hotel deposit. One tShirt with a slow knuckle-dragging, hairy, drooling gorilla named Cisco comming up =) S/t I don't think Speakers will be a huge problem. I think that doing them for cheap, and getting companies to just fork out disposable cash might be a bit harder. But who knows. > > I think the technical conference in NZ is a worthy one, but > I would put more emphasis on getting managers of Telco's > along, simply as it is an opportunity for them to understand > a little more of the technical side, and perhaps it is also > an opportunity for the techo's to understand the management > drivers. > <t-i-c> Telco's are some of the most technical and intelligent people that I know. They have recently been shown to make EXCELLENT networking decisions. I think they would be a great asset to any conference audience. </t-i-c> Having said all this I guess the thing that I'm worried about the most is that we start too big and it tanks. We are then left with the "Nah, we tried that once but it didn't work" All good points man. Esp the ones about how expensive and time consuming the organising is. Dean - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Malcolm Lockyer 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

Or maybe BoIP through a PTPC (point-to-point courrier) VPN where each beer data gram would use the old fassioned BPAS algarithim (brown paper and string) which would safely encrpt the beer datagram inside making the BoIP secure from the rest of the public courier network. Sorry, just talking nonsense again... Malcolm >From: "Kefyn Judson $ENZ$" <kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz> >To: "'Juha Saarinen'" <juha(a)saarinen.org>, Andy Linton <asjl(a)lionra.net.nz> >CC: Andreas Girardet <andreas.girardet(a)team.xtra.co.nz>, >nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far > >The alternative may be to deliver them over the "IP over CourierPost" RFC >that some of us have been discussing (Have any of you guys taken this RFC >further?). > >Regards >Kefyn JUDSON >Multiservice Network Architect >ERICSSON New Zealand >* Phone: +64 9 3555 461 >* Mobile: +61 21 535 331 >* E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz >* SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] > Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:43 PM > To: Andy Linton > Cc: Andreas Girardet; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far > > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Andy Linton wrote: > --snip-- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 10 Jan '02

10 Jan '02

I think Lin's point five is a good one and not too difficult to organise. Could have Auckland and Wellington sessions. Regards Kefyn JUDSON Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Lin Nah [mailto:lin(a)darkmere.gen.nz] Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 10:31 PM To: Craig Whitmore Cc: Darryl Hamilton; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far 1 Most conferences are difficult to organise because it entails lining up attendees and speakers to all be at the same place and time. 2 once venue and programme is set, the other thing would be to justify to management that you are worthy to attend such conferences and if you are lucky get the fee, accomodation and travel paid. 3 There used to be a technical and a management part running in parallel at the Uniforum conference with. In the last few ones there has been no such distinction. I wonder if it is worth while asking if we (nznog) can organise the technical bit. This leaves the organisation of the conference to them and the work is only in organising the presenters etc. (just a suggestion to reduce the organisation workload) 4 what content do you need to see in the programme before you think it is worth your time attending? Perhaps it might be worthwhile looking at the presentation topics of the NANOG meeting or APRICOT and have each of you list what it is you would have attended. I remember one of the Uniforum sessions in Rotorua where someone expected a lot of nznog types to attend his session and not many turned up and so he had to change his talk to a more general one on IP Net (or something like that). 5. Some of you feel that a lot more gets done at the pub. If it is the case, let's not have a conference. Organise regular drinkies or dinners (eg once every 3 or 6 months) and have one or two speakers give a presentation before the drinkies start. Perhaps even say the presenters have to buy a round of drinks. 6. I also feel that some of you won't be too happy sitting listening to presentations all day and perhaps it would be more realistic to have more sessions with hands on things to do at some computer/router/machine and fewer presentations. just my 2c worth Lin The - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 09 Jan '02

09 Jan '02

Agree. A lot of good came out of the Christmas parties. That is above and beyond the spiff and beer. How about another casual gathering at the pub in Aotea square to kick off the year? Regards Kefyn JUDSON Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Joe Abley [mailto:jabley(a)automagic.org] Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:48 PM To: Andy Linton Cc: Andreas Girardet; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:40:20PM +1300, Andy Linton wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Andreas Girardet wrote: > > > As Internet people, can't we organize a conference and broadcast it to > > those who can't make it? Then it would not matter too much where we > > actually do it. Just fast internet would be needed. > > > > That would be a first. And interactivity would not be hard to do. > > > > I am sure we all could have a true Network conference ...... > > Surely a true network conference involves the cashing in of the large > numbers of beer credits. How often have network people said, thanks, I owe > you a beer... > > I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols well > enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place. I have heard it said of the NANOG meetings that the presentations are really incidental to the real reason for attending, and that the real work at NANOG gets done in the lobby and in the bar. This is not to belittle the material, which is frequently very interesting and well-presented; however, there are other reasons to go to a *NOG conference than just to watch people reading from powerpoint slides. Those aspects are better served in a conference involving an overnight stay, I think. Joe - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: BoIP
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 09 Jan '02

09 Jan '02

Hmmm... Lion Breweries is just a few meters behind the new Ericsson building. Could be a great opportunity to implement this protocol. Regards Kefyn JUDSON Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: J S Russell [mailto:jsr(a)jsr.com] Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:44 PM To: Andy Linton Cc: Andreas Girardet; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Andy Linton wrote: > I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols well > enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place. BoIP, it's the Big New Thing. JSR -- John S Russell | Smile Operations Manager | Nod Attica/Callplus NZ | Build it. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Kefyn Judson (ENZ) 09 Jan '02

09 Jan '02

The alternative may be to deliver them over the "IP over CourierPost" RFC that some of us have been discussing (Have any of you guys taken this RFC further?). Regards Kefyn JUDSON Multiservice Network Architect ERICSSON New Zealand * Phone: +64 9 3555 461 * Mobile: +61 21 535 331 * E-mail: kefyn.judson(a)ericsson.co.nz * SMS: kefyn(a)vodafone.net.nz -----Original Message----- From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha(a)saarinen.org] Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:43 PM To: Andy Linton Cc: Andreas Girardet; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Andy Linton wrote: > I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols > well enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place. Beer over IP (BoIP)? Has the RFC been written yet? -- Juha Take off every sig! - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Andreas Girardet 09 Jan '02

09 Jan '02

As Internet people, can't we organize a conference and broadcast it to those who can't make it? Then it would not matter too much where we actually do it. Just fast internet would be needed. That would be a first. And interactivity would not be hard to do. I am sure we all could have a true Network conference ...... Andreas - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
by Allister Clarke 09 Jan '02

09 Jan '02

What about CPIP?(Carries Pigeon IP) Allister. -----Original Message----- From: J S Russell [mailto:jsr(a)jsr.com] Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:44 p.m. To: Andy Linton Cc: Andreas Girardet; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Andy Linton wrote: > I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols > well enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place. BoIP, it's the Big New Thing. JSR -- John S Russell | Smile Operations Manager | Nod Attica/Callplus NZ | Build it. - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog - To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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