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RE: ISOCNZ forum - an idea
by Robert Gray 04 Nov '98

04 Nov '98

Frank March wrote: > ..... We would just need a day, place and time to be > agreed and a willing host. We could happily do 10-15, get a bit cramped beyond that. Robert Gray Clearview Communications, Auckland New Zealand bobg(a)clearview.co.nz <mailto:bobg(a)clearfield.co.nz> http://www.clearview.co.nz/ <http://www.clearview.co.nz/> Phone DDI +64 9 529 5704, Fax +64 9 529 5702, Mob +64 25 971 860 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Interactive Video Feed - Auckland - Face to Face '98
by netwoman＠one2one.co.nz 04 Nov '98

04 Nov '98

Greetings. I have been following the discussion on this list and the newsgroup which has queried why the technology for the free, live broadcast of Face to Face '98 to the Altos Bar in Sky City is not interactive. I have consulted with the contractor and discovered (to my embarrassment) that it is indeed interactive. I am completely ignorant of this part of the technology, so I apologise for not picking up on this sooner. So - the process will run like this (the gods of technology willing <g>): The live video feed will commence at 8:30 and run through until just before 3:30. Wellington will see Auckland and vice versa. Our expectation is that when each of the Sessions (1,2, and 3) break into workshops that the Auckland participants will do the same thing. The report-back sessions will include space for live report- back from Auckland. The only difficulty lies in the deadline for pack- up at Altos as they need the gear cleared by 3:30 as the bar opens to the public at 4:00pm. We are negotiating on this, and Plan B is that if the pack-up has to be before Auckland has a chance to report back on Session 3 "Does the Internet Need Government?" that we have someone in Auckland report in by Cell-phone. Whether we can accommodate more interaction than this will very much depend on the day - it's a learning curve for many of us. I need to reiterate that the AGM is *not* part of the broadcast as we do not have constitutional provision. This year's broadcast/video confernece is really a "trial run" for next year, when we will have the consitutional power and the appropriate security to run the Conference and AGM across the net itself with full voting ability for all participants. I hope this clears up any concerns people have had, and again I reget that my ignorance of the technology has caused confusion. I look forward to "meeting" you in some form, and at the same time extending my knowledge on the technology front. PS The bar at Altos will open at noon for participants, and tea and coffee will be available all day. Cordially Sue Leader Executive Director ISOCNZ (Internet Society of New Zealand Inc) Exe.Dir(a)ISOCNZ.org.nz Voice: +64-4-801-6256 http://www.isocnz.org.nz --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: ISOCNZ forum - an idea
by Robert Gray 04 Nov '98

04 Nov '98

Sue Leader wrote (in part) > we wish to offer NZNOG members some alternatives to discuss. > 2. Attend only the "Who Inherited NZgate? Certainly, where do I apply? > 3. We are happy to facilitate a pre-Forum 'NZNOG and interest parties' gathering. Also an excellent suggestion, the time frame allowed in the forum (1.5 hours) doesn't sound adequate to me. This is a complex subject. > 4. It may be possible to set up a lunchtime round-table "closed door" session for NOG's on > the day to talk through issues. This also sounds like a good idea, given sufficient attendance by such worthies. Hopefully agreement on a course of actual action can be obtained > If travel costs are one of the problems for attendance....... No, there are other things I can do in Wellington in the pm and I'll come to the AGM. A generous and pleasing offer though. Personally I think this is an excellent offer and certainly demonstrates the type of leadership I was looking for. A cheque for my membership sub is in the mail Robert Gray Clearview Communications, Auckland New Zealand bobg(a)clearview.co.nz <mailto:bobg(a)clearfield.co.nz> http://www.clearview.co.nz/ <http://www.clearview.co.nz/> Phone DDI +64 9 529 5704, Fax +64 9 529 5702, Mob +64 25 971 860 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: ISOCNZ forum - an idea
by Frank March 04 Nov '98

04 Nov '98

Joe: I think your idea of producing a document would be very helpful. I would like to see ISOCNZ have the role of discussing/adopting such a document (if it is suitable, of course <G>) on behalf of the Internet community. Possibly even look at extending the ISPCOP in this direction...again if that seemed a useful thing to do. The idea of a 'closed room' session was not intended for secrecy.. only to keep numbers down to those interested and knowledgeable so that the issues could be explored 'off line' from wider discussions; it was always intended to include all who wanted to contribute, but exclude at the early stage those who only wanted to learn. I think a separate day would be better and if that could report to the F2F it would be very useful indeed. Andy has suggested that as most protagonists are in Auckland that the meeting should be there. We would just need a day, place and time to be agreed and a willing host. Frank March > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Abley [SMTP:jabley(a)clear.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:22 AM > To: netwoman(a)one2one.co.nz; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz > Cc: isocnz-admin(a)isocnz.org.nz; jabley(a)clear.co.nz > Subject: Re: ISOCNZ forum - an idea > > On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 09:24:03PM +1200, Sue Leader wrote: > > > > The Face to Face organising committee has been following the > > NZNOG discussion on the "Who owns Netgate?" session of Face to > > Face with interest. (After feedback this has been re-titled "Who > > Inherited NZgate? Portability of IP Addresses") We believe that this > > subject is so important, and one that it is crucial to have ISP and > > other industry input into, that we wish to offer NZNOG members > > some alternatives to discuss. > > > > [snip! snip!] > > As I have already mentioned to Sue, I have too many other things on and > can't spare a day to travel down to Wellington. > > The session sounds like a fine idea however; I do share Andy's > reservations > about whether a closed session is appropriate though, since the real > opportunity ISOCNZ has to add value to the discussions likes in the > education of the user community - keeping them out of a closed room isn't > going to help this much :) > > I plan to have my revised draft finished (well, started :) in the next > couple of days, and I will post that to the list. > > In the interests of the user community, it might make sense to draft a > smaller, more simple document which just explains the issues of address > delegation and ownership from non-NZGATE (i.e. provider-aggregatable) > blocks. If a large number of ISPs are happy to sign their names to it, > it would be a good document to publicise at the ISOCNZ meeting. > > The idea of this new document is, of course, to clarify matters for users, > and to avoid the same provider-independence confusion that we have with > the NZGATE blocks. The document could be extended in the future once we > have collective agreement on how the NZGATE block delegations fit into the > equation. > > If people think this is worth doing, I can have a stab at a first draft -- > however, anybody else who is keen to do it instead is more than welcome ;) > > > Joe > > -- > Joe Abley <jabley(a)clear.co.nz> Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008 > Network Architect, CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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ISOCNZ forum - an idea
by Sue Leader 04 Nov '98

04 Nov '98

Greetings. The Face to Face organising committee has been following the NZNOG discussion on the "Who owns Netgate?" session of Face to Face with interest. (After feedback this has been re-titled "Who Inherited NZgate? Portability of IP Addresses") We believe that this subject is so important, and one that it is crucial to have ISP and other industry input into, that we wish to offer NZNOG members some alternatives to discuss. 1. Come to the whole Forum as it will be worth your while if only from a networking perspective. Investment: $80 + GST members, $130 + GST non-members.* 2. Attend only the "Who Inherited NZgate? Portability of IP Addresses" session at 11:00am. For this we are prepared to reduce the investment to $40.00 + GST, and lunch is included. You will then not be able to attend the pre-11:00am or post-lunch sessions. 3. We are happy to facilitate a pre-Forum 'NZNOG and interest parties' gathering where the group can work through the issues and then attend Face to Face with the intention of reporting on your proceedings, e.g., concensus (if any), action items, and the like. If you wished to designate a "Reporter" they would have their Forum investment waived as do the other lead speakers. 4. It may be possible to set up a lunchtime round-table "closed door" session for NOG's on the day to talk through issues. The outcome of this could be reported back to Face to Face. This would mean re-arranging the agenda, so if this is your preference we would need a definite commitment soon. Please discuss these options - we do want to accommodate NZNOG if we can. If you decide on option 3 we would need notification of this fairly soon so that we can arrange a venue etc. Also we would need a decision on where you would actually want to hold that session (e.g., Auckland, Wellington etc) If you decided on either 1) or 2) then we could facilitate interested parties being invited to attend a post Forum NZNOG meeting. We have discussed this briefly with Andy Linton and he has indicated a willingness to facilitate/chair such a discussion if it were to be in Wellington. (Andy is strongly against the fourth option). If travel costs are one of the problems for attendance of Face to Face, please let the Society know that too and we'll see if we can be of some assistance on a case by case basis. Cordially For the Organising Committee Sue Leader Executive Director ISOCNZ (The Internet Society of New Zealand Inc) http://www.isocnz.org.nz Email:Exe.Dir(a)ISOCNZ.org.nz Voice: +64-4-801-6256 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: ISOCNZ forum
by Robert Gray 01 Nov '98

01 Nov '98

Joe Abley wrote: >I think a better heading would be: > What can be done about the legacy of NZGATE-delegated addresses within NZ? Ongoing portability of IP addresses. An open discussion on this subject is IMHO an excellent idea but the proposed forum is a) not about this topic, b) it is buried in the following all day programme * Pornography and Other Nasties: Are the ISPs Liable? * Internet Governance: The Future of the DNS * Who Owns Netgate? Portability of IP Addresses * Ethics on the Internet * Does the Internet Need Government? * ThinkQuest: Announcing ISOCNZ as National Partner for ThinkQuest International which I certainly have no desire to sit through, and c) there's a charge to attend. So, while the need for a discussion (and action) is clear, (no pun intended) I have reservations as to this being the right forum for the discussion. Peter Mott wrote: >I think the Internet provider industry needs to be able to speak with a single voice. We can can achieve this by:- > a) seizing the opportunity to grow ISOCNZ by joining up real quick or > b) forming our own industry association sooner rather than later I know a number of people in the Internet community share my reservations about ISOCNZ and have as a result avoided membership. However I think this is a clear opportunity for ISOCNZ to show leadership and, if they do, I for one would be prepared to "get in behind". Otherwise it's got to be option b) and that's probably a lot more painful. Some suggestions for the sort of leadership could be: 1. Change the subject to something more appropriate (Joe's suggestion looks good) 2. Fix a time for the discussion 3. Formally invite (write to? OK e-mail) industry players and ask them to send a rep 4. Treat it as an opportunity to show value for ISOCNZ membership (i.e. show value and we'll join) 5. Call for and distribute some papers in advance (again Joe's kick off paper makes a great starting point) 6. Drop the charge other than for direct expenses (if it's to be in Wellington we have costs enough to incur) How about it ISOCNZ? Robert Gray Clearview Communications, Auckland New Zealand bobg(a)clearview.co.nz <mailto:bobg(a)clearfield.co.nz> http://www.clearview.co.nz/ <http://www.clearview.co.nz/> Phone DDI +64 9 529 5704, Fax +64 9 529 5702, Mob +64 25 971 860 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: ISOCNZ forum
by Robert Gray 01 Nov '98

01 Nov '98

Apologies for the incomplete version sent previously, a slip of the fingers. Groan! Jim Higgins wrote: > Clearly, Robert has a much better solution, which he is keeping from us > at the moment - but I'm sure he will reveal all when he is ready. You give me too much credit I only wish that it were true. Regrettably my motives are much more prosaic. I'm hoping to save myself from sitting through a number of items to which I have nothing to contribute so that I don't miss what I hope will be the 'main event' and in the process save myself $80/$130. Thus far the only 'real' agenda for a forum I can find is on the isocnz web site under Eventz but is for December 96 (can you believe). Can we have a time and a definitive subject for the session on IP addressing? A concession on the entry fee would help me feel better about it too. Robert Gray Clearview Communications, Auckland New Zealand bobg(a)clearview.co.nz <mailto:bobg(a)clearfield.co.nz> http://www.clearview.co.nz/ <http://www.clearview.co.nz/> Phone DDI +64 9 529 5704, Fax +64 9 529 5702, Mob +64 25 971 860 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Recall: ISOCNZ forum
by Robert Gray 01 Nov '98

01 Nov '98

Robert Gray would like to recall the message, "ISOCNZ forum". --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: ISOCNZ forum
by Robert Gray 01 Nov '98

01 Nov '98

Jim Higgins wrote: > Clearly, Robert has a much better solution, which he is keeping from us > at the moment - but I'm sure he will reveal all when he is ready. You give me too much creditI wish that were true, regretably my motives are much more prosaic. I'm hoping to save from sitting through a number of items to which I have nothing to contribute so that I don't miss what I hope will be the 'main event' and in the process save myself $80/$130. Thus far the only 'real' agenda for a forum I can find is on the isocnz web site under Eventz but is for December 96 (can you believe). If the subject is re is a don't really lot of Robert Gray Clearview Communications, Auckland New Zealand bobg(a)clearview.co.nz <mailto:bobg(a)clearfield.co.nz> http://www.clearview.co.nz/ <http://www.clearview.co.nz/> Phone DDI +64 9 529 5704, Fax +64 9 529 5702, Mob +64 25 971 860 --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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RE: ISOCNZ forum
by Frank March 01 Nov '98

01 Nov '98

Apologies to those who will be getting two copies of this; suddenly nznog and isocnz-l seem to be in lockstep; I hope that this condition is temporary! Just a brief comment expanding on what Jim Higgins wrote: Although ISOCNZ cannot dictate policy over IP address numbering in New Zealand, it is in a position (or with a bit of a push will be in such a position), to develop a consensus view amongst the various interest groups. It could even get itself into the position of being able to represent those groups in suitable fora or to external agencies should that become desirable or necessary. This is roughly where it is at (or should be) with the ISP Code of Practice. One of the preconditions for such a development to be possible it clearly needs a much wider membership base than it has at present. I hope that the overall theme of this year's Face to Face will lead in that direction. Frank March Secretary, ISOCNZ > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Higgins [SMTP:jhiggins(a)netedge.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 1:23 AM > To: Joe Abley > Cc: Robert Gray; nznog(a)list.waikato.ac.nz; isocnz-l(a)isocnz.org.nz > Subject: Re: ISOCNZ forum > > Joe Abley wrote: > > > > > As I mentioned before, I share reservations that ISOCNZ is an > appropriate > > body to _dictate_ policy on this issue. However, it is probably a good > > forum in which to make the issues more public. > > Joe, I have the same reservations - in fact ISOCNZ is in no position to > do such a thing - even if it wanted to. We have however been asked, by > a number of ISPs and others to do 'something' about this issue and we > feel that trying to get the parties together in a non-threatening > environment is a good start. The solution, whatever it is must be > 'owned' and agreed to by all involved - otherwise it has little chance > of success. > --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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