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FW: Asia Online
by Gordon Smith 28 Oct '01

28 Oct '01

I'd probably agree with Mark that a warning was in order, if not for the fact that we received spam from another Orcon customer, FusionDigital, only last month. That one was trying to sell me bandwidth, ports, etc Come on Seeby, I think some serious LARTing is in order... Gordon --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: FW: Asia Online
by Seeby - Orcon Internet 28 Oct '01

28 Oct '01

As you will know - Orcon is a wholesaler to a large number of ISP's and web hosting companies around NZ. If a customer of one of the ISP's we service SPAM's - we don't cut the ISP off for inadvertently spamming by way of their customer - because it's not their fault. Any issues like this are generally referred to the ISP hosting the customer. With regard to our terms and conditions there is a clear distinction between customers directly on our network, and wholesale customers who have their own networks and customers behind us. I can assue you, as will have been evidenced in the past, that direct customers of ours on our network who spam or cause problems are dealt with swiftly, however wholesale customers are generally allowed to make their own rules about what must or must not be allowed in the case of spamming. In this issue, cutting of strongnet because of the actions of Phil Hunt would affect a lot more customers than simply him alone. As a wholesale customer, I am affecting all their customers as well if I take such action. It is important to understand that an individual is not necessarily equivalent to a company, and where we have wholesale contracts with a company, the actions of one director may not be warrant, justify or allow the removal of services to that company. There are some issues which people will not be aware of that make this very complicated for us, and as I have said - we are in the middle. I certainly do not condonde the actions that have happend, however suggesions from people to "cut Strongnet off!" are not helpful when not all the facts may be known. You can be assured that myself and Orcon act with the utmost of integrity, and that I am not simply "changing the rules" for one particular customer. Cheers Seeby Orcon Internet - www.orcon.net.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: <gordon(a)morenet.net.nz> > Although I can see your point, if you take this position with spammers on > your network, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Orcon's IP blocks listed > in the various email blacklists as being spammer-friendly. > > You're changing your terms and conditions for individual users, which, I > believe, is not really acceptable. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: FW: Asia Online
by Seeby - Orcon Internet 26 Oct '01

26 Oct '01

While not condoning Philip Hunt's actions in this regard, we are placed in a very difficult position. Our terms and conditions state that we do not allow users to send spam from our network, however when this user is a business, and the lifeblood of their business is providing Internet services - to cut them off would mean the end of their ability to function. Because of this, I feel that it is fair to give a warning only rather than a suspension of services. I am trying to be fair to all parties - including the wider Internet community - and wanted to let everyone know where I stand. I guess we are stuck in the middle on this one. Cheers Seeby Orcon Internet - www.orcon.net.nz > At 27/10/2001 11:17, you wrote: > > > Strongnet operates one of New Zealand's most advanced and fully automated > > > Domain Name and Webhosting systems. > > And appears to be a customer of orcon.net.nz whose terms contain published at > > http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/terms/termsandconditions.html > > contain: > > "Users are not permitted to send multiple unsolicited email (Spam) to > single or multiple users including, but not limited to, advertising email." > > "Any failure to obey these rules or if a specific complaint has been made > from any person or company about your activities we will investigate (in > conjunction with the police if necessary). We will then make a decision as > to the severity of your actions. This may result in a warning. If we > consider the breach to be sufficiently serious (at our discretion) you > agree that we may disconnect your services immediately without notice or > liability to you." > > This email is a specific complaint in regard to the bulk UCE sent by > strongnet to .nz registrants who are currently customers of Asia On-line. > > I believe the severity of the action demands immediate > disconnection. There is no way an ISP can reasonably claim ignorance in > such matters. > > Other internet providers who endorse this complaint and recommended action, > please wave your hand. > > > > > Peter Mott > Chief Enthusiast > 2DAY INTERNET LIMITED > -/- > > 2day.com - The professional choice for automated web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re:: Asia Online
by PhoneNet 26 Oct '01

26 Oct '01

At 13:03 27/10/01 +1300, you wrote: >Condering the identities of 2 of the other parties I have heard of then >cutting them off will get rid of a large percentage of the NZ Internet. >Since this is not going to happen it's not really fair to impose a similar >penality against strongnet just cause fewer people will be inconvenienced. So name them as well... what is it with this industry... its been unable to regulate itself as far back as I can remember and half of the transgressions of supposedly responsible ISPs never make it into the "press".... let's treat this as a wake-up call and do somehting pro-active for a change! Ian >> >>However every ISP here has upstreams even if they are overseas, whats more >>every connection agreement I have seen allows the upstream ISP to cut off >>spammers. >> >>-- >>Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall(a)ihug.co.nz >>Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon(a)darkmere.gen.nz >>ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz >> >>--------- >>To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >>where the body of your message reads: >>unsubscribe nznog >> --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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FW: Asia Online
by Chris Woodrow 26 Oct '01

26 Oct '01

Its only fair that you make your own minds up about the spam and a copy is below. My perspective is that spam sucks, but at least we theoretically in New Zealand we have great network administrators (I do note Xtra as an exception here after previous experience) that we can have tell the users off and reduce/prevent spam. However when a network is involved, who does the telling off? Networks/Service providers by involvement in the industry should hopefully already know that spam is wrong, therefore a telling off is pointless and punishment realistically should be an option. Exactly how is the hard bit, and hopefully the press will do their part to expose these questionable StrongNet ethics. Who knows perhaps NZNOG being notified of peers who are spamming may be punishment enough in the long term, it is a very small industry. After getting six of these emails, there is no way I would deal with StrongNet in the future, however realistically I may not have in any case. But Phillip Hunt and StrongNet are now forever etched in my 'memory' of New Zealand based spammers and dodgey people. Cheers Chris Chris Woodrow Melco New Zealand > -----Original Message----- > From: phil(a)strongnet.co.nz [SMTP:phil(a)strongnet.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 11:54 AM > To: info(a)melco.co.nz > Cc: postmaster(a)melco.co.nz > Subject: Asia Online > > Dear Asia Online Domain Holder (melco.co.nz), > > Strongnet operates one of New Zealand's most advanced and fully automated > Domain Name and Webhosting systems. It is not our intention to send you > information that is of no interest. Please advise us at any time if you > wish to be removed from our records by replying to this message with just > "REMOVE" in the subject line. > > You may have read in the New Zealand Herald that ... "Internet service > provider Asia Online New Zealand has gone into voluntary liquidation". The > article can be found by clicking here > <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/businessstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=22455 > 4&thesection=business&thesubsection=ebusiness&thesecondsubsection=internet > > or on the following link: > > &thesection=business&thesubsection=ebusiness&thesecondsubsection=internet< > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/businessstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=224554 > &thesection=business&thesubsection=ebusiness&thesecondsubsection=internet> > > > According to our records, your domain name MELCO.CO.NZ is hosted at Asia > Online New Zealand. > > Strongnet is a 100% New Zealand privately owned company that has been > providing Domain Name and Hosting services since early 1998. Strongnet > operates its own network at Albany, Auckland with high speed connections > to the Internet and Uninteruptable Power. Our network is home to over 2500 > Domain Names, including many high-profile clients such as: > > * Cardlink Systems ( <http://www.cardlink.co.nz>) > > * Citroen New Zealand ( <http://www.citroen.co.nz>) > > * Regency Duty Free ( <http://www.regency.co.nz>) > > * Maurice Kain Textiles ( <http://www.mauricekain.co.nz>) > > * Software Of Excellence ( <http://www.soeidental.com>) > > * Wellington Drive Technologies ( <http://www.wdtl.com>) > > * Armstrong Corporation ( <http://www.armstrong.co.nz>) > > * Remuera Golf Club ( <http://www.remueragolfclub.com>) > > * BikeBarn ( <http://www.bikebarn.co.nz>) > > > It would be a great pleasure if we could be of any assistance to your > organisation with regard to hosting your Domain Name or Website going > forward. As an indication of pricing, access to our fully automated > website hosting packages is available from just $13.95 per month. > > If you are interested in learning more about our Domain Name and Hosting > system, please call us on 09 414 2492, or email info(a)strongnet.co.nz > <mailto:info(a)strongnet.co.nz>, or visit our website at > <http://www.strongnet.co.nz> > > Finally, thank you for your time... and we really look forward to hearing > from you soon! > > Kind regards, > Philip Hunt > Strongnet Limited > Tel: +64-9-414-2492 > Fax: +64-9-414-2960 > Email: info(a)strongnet.co.nz > Website: www.strongnet.co.nz > --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: FW: Asia Online
by Peter Mott 26 Oct '01

26 Oct '01

>At 27/10/2001 11:17, you wrote: >> > Strongnet operates one of New Zealand's most advanced and fully automated >> > Domain Name and Webhosting systems. > >And appears to be a customer of orcon.net.nz whose terms contain published at > >http://www.orcon.net.nz/support/terms/termsandconditions.html > >contain: > >"Users are not permitted to send multiple unsolicited email (Spam) to >single or multiple users including, but not limited to, advertising email." > >"Any failure to obey these rules or if a specific complaint has been made >from any person or company about your activities we will investigate (in >conjunction with the police if necessary). We will then make a decision as >to the severity of your actions. This may result in a warning. If we >consider the breach to be sufficiently serious (at our discretion) you >agree that we may disconnect your services immediately without notice or >liability to you." > >This email is a specific complaint in regard to the bulk UCE sent by >strongnet to .nz registrants who are currently customers of Asia On-line. > >I believe the severity of the action demands immediate >disconnection. There is no way an ISP can reasonably claim ignorance in >such matters. > >Other internet providers who endorse this complaint and recommended >action, please wave your hand. > > > >Peter Mott >Chief Enthusiast >2DAY INTERNET LIMITED >-/- > >2day.com - The professional choice for automated web hosting services >--------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Re: Asia Online and Spammers
by Mark Foster 26 Oct '01

26 Oct '01

Thank you Juha, got it in one. :) At 10:26 27/10/2001 +1300, Juha Saarinen wrote: >On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Joe Abley wrote: > > > What is "one of our group"? > >The nasty buncha spammers that hang out in NZNOG, of course. > >-- > > > > >Regards, > > >Juha > >--------- >To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz >where the body of your message reads: >unsubscribe nznog --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Shouldn't ICONZ/Asia Online put something on its Web site...?
by Juha Saarinen 26 Oct '01

26 Oct '01

I'm sure customers would appreciate that. -- Juha Saarinen --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Whats Happened to Asiaonline (Ref: from Aardvark)
by Craig Whitmore 26 Oct '01

26 Oct '01

Hi.. I just saw something on Aardvark (http://www.aardvark.co.nz) about AsiaOnline. Is this true, or just a unfounded rumour? Thanks Craig Whitmore --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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Asia On-Line Spamming
by Roger De Salis 26 Oct '01

26 Oct '01

I've seen the list, and response from Steve Phillips asking for time. I've received a copy of the SPAM in question. There is an accusation made that Domainz data was used to generate the SPAM. Freely available zone-xfers were turned off several months ago, so it is possible that an out of date zone-xfer could have been used. I have no idea beyond this what/how/why. There is no policy on this, other than the generic - "thou shalt not SPAM". It might be useful therefore that the industry generates it's own policy on this. What is a suitable penalty? An example of what could be easily implemented would be a modest delay to registration change overs. ================================================================== Recent SPAMMING of the entire .NZ by the Melbourne Company ING with the suggestion that failure to act would not permit pre-registration of .info and .biz resulted in the suspension of ability to do DNS changes. That company remains suspended until a meaningful "I'm Sorry" is forthcoming, at their expense. ================================================================= Two points. An "I'm Sorry" wouldn't go amiss. You know who you are. A thoughtful discouse would be useful about how transgressors may have their rights limited for a period of time, so as to encourage the correct behaviour would be something we would be happy to help create. Rgds Roger -- \_ Roger De Salis rdesalis(a)cisco.com </' Cisco Systems NZ Ltd +64 25 481 452 /) L8, ASB Tower, 2 Hunter St +64 4 496 9003 (/ Wellington, New Zealand roger(a)desalis.gen.nz ` In October 2001, the 5th most important product line by value for Cisco is - the telephone. Cisco 79x0 IP telephones. --------- To unsubscribe from nznog, send email to majordomo(a)list.waikato.ac.nz where the body of your message reads: unsubscribe nznog

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